I now know I'm right about little girls and the hijab.....

[PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker]

talking to a beautiful Somali lady today(they all have hollywood smiles don't they, bloody genetic miracles!!) and she confirmed that whilst her 5 & 7 year old dds don't cover their heads she gets harassed and pressured by men at the mosque that her dds should cover. She said that whilst she doesn't because she loves her dds hair, other women do cover their very young dds. She said the men also say that unless they do it from very young they will not do it when they are the right age!

So it's not only about copying Mummy, just like the rise of the burka it's a renewed stick to beat women with.

but tehre is no such thing as italian really either spikey. taht's what we are saying. no-one is actully really anything by blood because we are all from mixed descendants.

Everyone who is born here is BRITISH (unless they have emigrated and adopted new citizenship). There is no such nationality as British born (or English). Your nationality is on your passport.

english blood Spikey, no such thing as english blood! Other people seem to think being born here, being raise/educated here, chosing to live here, having parents born here is enough to make you 'english' if you want to think of yourself as such. It's not just a blood thing. Hell, why am I even bothering, I'm not even english though happy for my dc to think they are if they want to be.

@EleanorHauntedHandbasket, I'm sure you also make them clench when they see you half naked walking on the street!

@Lauriefairycake, It is actually in the scripture! And all Muslims know this. So its not cultural thing. And FYI, covering head is actually in Bible too in old testement.

spikey going on what you are saying you are British but you have italian heritage.

There is such a thing, because I consider myself so. You can't invalidate peoples identity by telling them what they are and are not. You can't tell Italians they aren't Italian. Would you go up to someone at work, who told you they were Italian or Turkish or Arabic and say "nah you got it all wrong. You're English!" No.

Bluegreen, where did EH say she walks down teh street half naked? just because she doesn't wear a hijab or burqa, doesn't mean she dresses immodestly.

Spikey, are you being deliberately this obtuse?

if the person who told me they were italian said they were born in england I'd say "so you're british with italian heritage"

Yep, Italian heritage British born. Not English heritage. I did say that before. That's what I mean by not English.

but they wouldn't be itakian, which is what you seem to be saying.

fasty whatever, you are just piping up to be part of the gang.

Repeatedly people have told you all night that there is no such thing as "English". We have made the point that you are not English but that you ARE British by nationality as well as all the other things you want to call yourself. Instead of understanding the point I am making about NO-ONE being British you keep bleating that we are 2all trying to force you to be English". It is all a bit ridiculous.
Bring back Posie with her in-grained racism - at least she can follow the line of an argument...

that should read NO-ONE being English of course.

Actually, now I think about it, I am sort of seeing spikey's point, though I think shewas a bit, well, spiky about it. Englishness, if you're of a family that's been in England for generations, seems an obvious and easy concept. And we have Britishness as an overarching legal nationality, so people might say British Asian, say. We don't have the US tradition of saying "Irish American", though, and people don't tend to call themselves "British Irish" or "Italian British".

So where does that leave Englishness, if you're first generation born in England? My mum feels more Irish, I guess, but never places a great deal of weight on her national identity. I'd say I'm English, but always identified more with mum's side of the family, and feel more at home in Scotland now than I ever did in England.

I guess I think it's nebulous, and most people do, so spikey's emphatic insistence on "being Italian" looked odd. But the situation is odd; there's no obvious "right" answer. How many generations does a family have to be in a country to start to naturally just define themselves as from there, rather than a country of origin.

You know how I know that? Because you started off polite, then as people began questionning, you got ruder and ruder. Part of the pack and all that.

I am following actually. Perfectly well. Nobody told me I was not English, as you say. They were questionning why I consider myself Italian. Don't you understand?

I think I've just lost the will to live.

what gang would that be, isn't it telling, that not one person agrees with you? Maybe that says it all. I actually usually like to go against the crowd, I can be a bit contrary that way but then in this case I would be wrong to do so just for the sake of it as you are talking nonsense.

Yes, here comes the insinuation of thickness on my part (rather than just calling me thick). I'm not thick though. I have an academic side, I have a first class degree and am doing an Msc. This is personal, nothing to do with academia. So if you have lost the will to live, that's fine

Ok,blood lines....
my blood group is B neg.....fairly unusual....apparently(according to a website on blood groups) most people with B neg come from Northern Pakistan....and there was me thinking i was English!!!!

spikey you outright called me thick earlier so i don't think you can take the moral highground on that one.

Bah. I'm going back to having a crush on Armando.

So I'm not Italian then in your eyes? In all your eyes. That's what I'm saying. You denied it before, telling me it's my right to choose what I want. It isn't the case though is it. Just like people try to be PC but really, they want everyone in England to be like them.
My identity is not nonsense. And you mean not one person on this thread, at this time, agrees. Go out there, onto the street and spout what I consider your nonsense. No?

I called you thick. I didn't insinuate it like a creep, leaving it open to interpretation so I could deny it if challenged.