I now know I'm right about little girls and the hijab.....

[PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker]

talking to a beautiful Somali lady today(they all have hollywood smiles don't they, bloody genetic miracles!!) and she confirmed that whilst her 5 & 7 year old dds don't cover their heads she gets harassed and pressured by men at the mosque that her dds should cover. She said that whilst she doesn't because she loves her dds hair, other women do cover their very young dds. She said the men also say that unless they do it from very young they will not do it when they are the right age!

So it's not only about copying Mummy, just like the rise of the burka it's a renewed stick to beat women with.

I like "wise one". I might start defining myself as a Viking Yoda.

Spikey,you started it by saying that you would feel insulted to be thought English,
you later changed that to irritated
It's a discussion thread....so discuss...no one was attacking you,just pitting forward different points of view....
why are you being rude to clemette?

Er what about our Arabic friend, who was born here, but speaks only Arabic, and is educated in Arabic at home. Poor sod, there he is, thinking he's Arabic

spikey i have a french surname and could call my child a french first name, it wouldn't mean they were french. his name doesn't mean he is italian.

I'm not being rude! She's wise aint she? She told me off for having no understanding of genetics etc, so obviously she's much cleverer than me! What's the problem?

"blood line" what bollocks. You are Italian because thats what you were brought up to beleive, there is nothing in your blood that makes you inherently italian, you have (through yours and your family choice) chosen to view yourself as Italian. I know plenty of asians who were born here who would describe themselves as British or English in a flash becasue this if their country and the only one they identify with.

Gina Yasheri does a very funny sketch about going back to Nigeria to discover her heritage to discover that her roots were most defintiely in Peckham!

DS born in Kazakhstan of uncertain central asian parentage if asked where he is from says in a very confused voice "England", because even at four he can understand what seems to escape you, that he can have Kazakh heritage and still be English.

Well booooooooyhoo my name means I'm Italian, as it's an Italian name

Who are you,spikey,to say what Paolo Nuttini is?....surely your whole point is that it's up to him.....are you telling him he's wrong if he describes himself as Scottish?

quite alot of americans have irish names (more likely derivations of). they are not irish they are american.

your name doesn't mean you are italian. sorry but it doesn't. like i said i could call my child a fench name. it doesn't make it french.

"blood line" what bollocks

CAVEAT unless you are the queen or a prize winning heifer

kew i saw that sketch the otehr night. very funny.

"who was born here, but speaks only Arabic" - no I'd call misguided to have lived in a country from (presumably) before birth and still not managing to speak the language

Of course, the Queen's bloodline is German. I wonder if she is insulted to be called English...

"Iannucci doesn?t know whether this is a product of being not quite Italian and not quite Scottish, but he has always felt slightly detached from whatever community he is in. 'Without being weird,? he adds, 'I don?t want you to think I?m a sick loner."

slightly detached - wd quite like that on my passport.

I've chosen because that's what I am. I'm not being told that I'm anything but Italian. You don't dismiss peoples identities just because you have scientific knowledge.

but thinking about it DS goes brown in the sun so can;t be English. Must also break the bad news to my sister that she has to find a new nationality on that basis too.

if i change my name to emannuelle can i be french?

so if it were discovered that you were swapped accidentally at birth with the german couples child next door then miraculously overnight you'd become german

Do you know what then. I need to go to bed so for now, you win, even though there is no such thing as English, clever Mumsnetters, everyone who is born in this country is English. Not sure how that works but...

my sister goes brown in the sun. I don't. Our maternal grandparents are Irish, paternal English. Or have I been Living A Lie?

so, if I marry someone called Goldberg and become fastedwina Goldberg, do I become Jewish, do I have to start going to the synagogue and forsake my bacon sarnies? Oiyve!

I am fascinated by the bizarre lack of understaning of the difference between heritage and nationality (setting aside that English isnt really a nationality).

Just how Italian are you? DO you vote in Italian elections? Do you count in Italian? Do you swear in Italian?

Just curious not really relevant.

DP is Scottish and also goes very brown in the sun........maybe he should have a chat with his Mum about the Italian man in the ice cream van all those years ago...[hshock]

I do swear in Italian, yes. Why would I vote in Italian elections when I live here?
Are you going to answer the question? If there is no such thing as English, how can everyone born here be English? Surely they are British born?