to get annoyed with the way English people communicate?

[BobMarley]

Now, I am not English so you can tell me to sod off to my own country if I don't like it here .

BUT I'm getting sooo tired with people talking in circles. For example, the hinting when someone need a favour or something. You don't have to have a 5 minute conversation with me just so you can ask me the question in a roundabout way. Can you just ask the question? And I'll answer with 'yes' or 'no'.

Simples and time-saving, no?

It makes me paranoid, as where I'm from you just say what you mean and what you want. No guessing and reading in between the lines involved. Half the time I'm completely missing the point of the whole conversation as it so cryptic!

AIBU?

Bob agree about it being much better when people ask for favours directly ....it's much easier to say "no" on the one hand .. and if it's possible to help out, it can be quite a nice feeling to be asked!!

Digressing slightly ...

It's also interesting how, I don't think us Brits (since the 60s anyway) are viewed in continental Europe as being particularly polite in a general sense, despite our bending over backwards to avoid confrontation, saying our "pleases" and "thank-yous" or our superior queue-forming abilities.

[Lol MmeBodyintheBasement re passing the butter]

Some examples: we don't use the obligatory "bonjour" or "au revoir" or equivalents when entering and leaving a shop, we can be quite loud in restaurants [you can always hear the table of "braying Brits" way before you spot 'em ) and
[taking a risk and being very direct here!!] our dc are not always the most polite and well behaved in the world.

I think that might be down to Brits being quite "individualistic" in their attitudes and lifestyle (which can be enormously liberating of course!) whereas other European cultures tend to be more oriented towards the "group"; hence the 4ft Belgian lady pensioner being quite at ease telling schoolchildren off for misbehaving at the bus stop.

[Interesting what you say Franca about our not wanting to impose seeming like we don't care after a while - there's definitely some truth in that sadly]

In some ways of course the Brits ARE more polite but I think we are quite schizophrenic in our behaviour, hence a teenage boy I know doing anything he can possibly do to avoid taking a faulty jacket back to a shop (something he is perfectly entitled to do) the same night getting rip-roaringly drunk and breaking his neighbours garden fence without turning a hair.

But maybe that's just down to the Brits and their relationship with alcohol ... another topic altogether ....

... although thinking about it, perhaps our over-consumption comes down to bolstering ourselves up in order to communicate more directly!

[SC reaches for a glass of red and ponders the use of the conditional]

Having said all of that, we (very generally speaking) have a much better attitude to customer service in shops. Many French and Belgian shop-keepers I know look at you as though you are disturbing their day when you walk in to a shop wanting to part with your hard-earned cash.

Although sometimes, to be fair, if you can get over their initial brusqueness and demonstrate you are serious, they can be very helpful (but by that point I'm usually too peeved to carry on).

"I think that might be down to Brits being quite "individualistic" in their attitudes and lifestyle (which can be enormously liberating of course!) whereas other European cultures tend to be more oriented towards the "group"; hence the 4ft Belgian lady pensioner being quite at ease telling schoolchildren off for misbehaving at the bus stop"

*Stillcounting", totally.
In fact, lots of Italians (especially those who come from smaller, provincial places) find moving and living in the UK incredibly liberating.
On the other hand, it can also feel a bit lonely for us foreigners in the UK, because, as you said, we are used to live in "groups", be them extended families or friends (I have a group of friends who holiday together every year, and it's usually about 20/30 people -including the dc!).

Stillcounting

YABVU.

FWIW, I had a French man who is married to a Dutch woman (and lives in the Netherlands) stay at our house last night. I found it incredibly annoying how he couldn't take any hint at all.

At breakfast I ended up saying "You will do what I want because this is my house."

As a foreigner in the UK for 20 years, I used to think the British were soo polite. Now I hyave changed my mind. Often they just use empty words. In front of you they will be polite, but behind you they will be rude (I have seen this as a third pwerson observing politeness folowed by ill talk about the person who has just left). In "my" country you know at least where you stand. You know whether someone likes you or not.

I'd say the opposite - the British reserve means that you do know when someone likes you, because they open up more. Having lived somewhere where people are typically more extrovert, I at first thought they were being friendly and only later realised they weren't really.

I often use the hint method to try to make the person think it's their own idea. You often get what you want if they think they thought of it!

haha BobMarley I get it. My parents are from the Netherlands and I feel it too. I'm learning to adjust but the Dutch are RENOWN for their frankness. I think I've unintentionally come across as rude on a number of occasions....

Are you in the South of England? If so, move a few miles oop north and you will find plenty of plain-spoken people. Sorry, if that's a terrible cliche but every single Northerner I've ever met is a.) very direct and b.) very keen to emphasise how direct and plain-spoken and not stuck-up they are, which suggests it's a character trait that's highly valued there.

Every culture is different really and it can get a bit wearing if that doesn't suit your personality. When I lived in Germany, I found the people quite rude at times and overly direct, often about things that didn't concern them. But then again, I'm from a country that is even less comfortable with plain-speaking than the South of England. My mother is like the bloody Oracle at Delphi - you have to be almost psychic to understand her cryptic references. It has given me a life-long paranoia that no-one ever really means what they say but that there is always a hidden meaning to even the most innocuous statements. Germany was refreshingly different and helped me learn to be more forthright and assertive but it did get wearing at times, as I felt like I was constantly in confrontation with people, which I don't enjoy.

Ha ha! I knew you were Dutch. I was actually telling a colleague of mine, who was complaining about the bad behaviour of some young Dutch women but 'hadn't liked to say anything', that by Dutch standards he had been more rude not to tell them that their behaviour was inappropriate.

Yes, Franca that's definitely the down side of British 'individuality' - it can seem very stand-offish.

It can also work in reverse. (Again generalising massively!!) lots of Flemish colleagues here marry early, live in a village close to their parents, and socialise exclusively with their families or close schoolfriends over the weekend. Which makes us Brits feel a bit left out when we casually throw out an invitation to have a drink after work for example or invite them around to Sunday lunch. They never, ever come - they all dash back home as fast as possible. (But maybe they are afraid of English cooking )

Both situations make integration quite difficult I think. We're lucky because dh has relatives here, but it is quite hard sometimes not to live in an expat bubble, however hard you try not to!

Do you live in a small town/village Stillcounting? I have the impression that smaller places can be pretty insular, no matter where they are...
Gosh I've spent the day making generalizations, haven't I?

at Inmyprime's mother sounding like the Oracle at Delphi

yabu

Lol about directness of Singaporeans. I am one, though adapted over time to English ways ...

Some of it is cultural. Singaporeans might not think it unusual to ask/comment on appearance or salary or childrearing (lots of your child looks cold sort of comments). A British person might be taken aback and find it intrusive.

I also agree with Stillcounting: "(d) our wonderful language allows us to express our ideas in three different ways using three different combinations of words - other languages don't allow for the same flexibility"

One of the best things moving to UK was to hear English as spoken by native speakers in all its precision, subtlety, wit and creativity. The language has incredible vocabulary and metaphor - you can tune the message so finely, layer on humour, add a barb, paint a picture, water down a sting.

I work with a lot of German and Europeans who are extremely proficient in English but sometimes I wonder if they get frustrated with the endless permutations British people use to get their message across because it has to be pitched at just the right tone.

other Europeans

I have to say that I've always been quiet good at getting the subtleties of the (I agree wonderful, witty, ironic) English language. That's why I got a bit paranoid

BobMarley: "Although I have learned not to comment on people's appearances in England, unless it is positive."

A compliment about appearance could also be seen as a backhanded insult eg you look great today, could mean you look like shit on others!

Franca, I have never been offended by anything you have said, quite the contrary ...

What do I know, also not native British, clodhopping Singaporean!

I would never want to offend you Blueshoes

Franca

I hate to toot my own horn but I think us Irish have a good balance between politeness and directness. I think Irish people have a good knack for being direct politely if that makes sense. When I got my first job in England I think my two bosses were a bit shocked at how direct I was, but were never offended. For example, my boss was always hinting at me that jobs needed to be done, then would never set a deadline and come back a couple of months later expecting it all ready right there and then! I told her quite plainly that she had to stop doing that, and that she had to set a date which I would write in my notebook as a record. She was put out at first, then the notebook became a bit of a joke, and then when I was leaving she said wistfully "But what are we going to do without the notebook?"

Both bosses were fairly rubbish on the organisation front and were a bit high-strung but as a result of my directness I got on with both of them really well while they (they were both English) danced around each other and ended up hating each other!

They would both complain to me about each other and and I would say "Well why don't you just sit her down and say this this and this?" Basically all the problems stated in a non-confrontational way. They would agree and say it was a good idea then never do it. I couldn't understand why they wouldn't just hash it out. TBH I find this sort of "politeness" infuriating and unprofessional in a working situation. In my opinion in a work situation you have to be direct with people and tell them exactly what you expect in no uncertain terms. Petty backbiting is just not acceptable and anyone who has complained about me behind my back (has only ever happened here not in Ireland) has been swiftly asked (not confronted) about it. I don't take work things personally so I don't get upset I just let it be known that any problems people have with me need to be addressed with me, not anyone else. And of course the Irish accent softens everything up so people think you're being nice and gentle even when you're ripping them a new one!

Blueshoes
My DH did not understand my mother when he first met her. It took me a while to realise that it was because of her habit of talking in idioms and phrases. Once he had learned all the idioms, he suddenly understood her.