to get annoyed with the way English people communicate?

[BobMarley]

Now, I am not English so you can tell me to sod off to my own country if I don't like it here .

BUT I'm getting sooo tired with people talking in circles. For example, the hinting when someone need a favour or something. You don't have to have a 5 minute conversation with me just so you can ask me the question in a roundabout way. Can you just ask the question? And I'll answer with 'yes' or 'no'.

Simples and time-saving, no?

It makes me paranoid, as where I'm from you just say what you mean and what you want. No guessing and reading in between the lines involved. Half the time I'm completely missing the point of the whole conversation as it so cryptic!

AIBU?

[Francagoestohollywood]

"Particularly in the pub with friends and you can have a proper discussion about something without worrying that you might upset someone with your viewpoint. In England I'm quite careful with what I say as I'm afraid that I end up upsetting someone as they take my viewpoint often personal. Whilst I think it is just my opinion and it is absolutely fine to disagree and to tell me so. We can still be friends!"

Yes, yes Bob, the same happened to me!

[SummerRain]

Most of the Irish people I know consider slagging to be an artform.... the closer to crossing the line you can get without being downright nasty the better it's received.

And i'm not just talking teenage boys and men here... my mommy friends are just as bad. You should have heard the things that were said to both me and the woman whose house it happened in when dd broke her leg.... most english people would have died in shock i think

[WriterofDreams]

I think the difference between the English and Irish is that the Irish rarely take offence. I have a Dutch friend who can be excessively blunt but if she says anything over the top to me I just bat it back to her while my English friends look shocked. I'm sure if some of my English friends heard the banter that goes on between me and my friends (as in "Good Lord what happened to your head?" when someone gets a haircut) they'd think we hated each other, but it's all in good spirits and I would never say something I know would genuinely hurt someone.

I do feel at times that I step over some invisible boundary with my English friends (as in, I'm too familiar or friendly or something) but I've stopped worrying about it. If an English friend starts hinting at me about something I'll just say "So you want me to do that, do you?" With my English colleagues I constantly have to say "Is it ok if I..." and "Do you mind if I..." because I know unless I ask directly they won't tell me if they're not happy about something. It annoys me. I'd rather they just say "Don't put that there please," or something equally direct.

[mindtheagegap]

YANBU. Been laughing at this thread...My Dutch DH says exactly the same. He's been here 30 years now so is more used to it - and I'm more used to his abrupt rudeness directness .

[SummerRain]

I started work in a pub in Ireland on a night of a Holand v Ireland world cup qualifier many a few years ago. When i started my shift Holland were losing so i felt safe enough telling the punters i was Dutch... within minutes they had regained the lead and won the match! There was cheerful banter and much slagging off of players on both teams but at no point was there any nastiness toward me or anyone being rude or unpleasant to me because of my nationality.

My dad has always gotten on fabulously with all my Irish family and they seem to enjoy his bluntness and 'rude' way of expressing things. The english lot never seem to know what to make of him though

[BobMarley]

onagar I think you hit the nail on the head. It is perfectly possible to be direct and polite at the same time. And I'm going to do my bit too, even when I do spot a hint (which is rare anyway) I won't react!

[onagar]

BobMarley, I'm british and it drives me mad too. I'm doing my bit to stamp out hints by refusing to react even when I spot one.

To those who hint let me say that excessive hinting is NOT the same thing as politeness. It's perfectly possible to be polite, but still let the other person know what you mean. If you leave after 30 minutes of conversation and they still don't have a clue what you wanted then you are doing it wrong.

Oh and lol at Heartsease thinking that simples was an insult

[OnceUponA]

What an interesting thread. I have just moved to Germany and I find myself shocked at some of the things people will say to me- I didn't just think they were direct, I thought they were rude! Even in a shop I was trying to directly translate from English, 'please may I have...' and a German will come along and say 'one coffee to go'

One of my colleagues said to me- you English are always worried about looking silly. We Germans never worry about embarrassing ourselves.
And it's true!

I think my housemates (in a flatshare at the moment) must think I am a total weirdo because I am constantly awkward and they have no idea what is wrong with me.

Cultures are funny things.

[campocaro]

Had a radical new short haircut

-English friends-it looks great
-Spanish friends-it looks so much better than before...

[hhmm]

[GoreRenewed]

Plain speaking and blunt can be translated as rude and insensitive.

Of course there is a middle ground. Most of us inhabit it IME.

[TheCoalitionNeedsYou]

The Dutch are the Yorkshiremen of Europe. I think being plain speaking and blunt is part of their cultural identity.

[duchesse]

Mumblechum- I'm afraid I did laugh out loud at your MIL's bluntness.

[umf]

I feel your pain BobMarley.

I'm English (and a southerner) so grew up with all this and presumably was ok with it. Then I married a Swede and lived in Sweden for a year. Now the English roundaboutness drives me nuts. Especially when drs and midwives do it - of all the people you need to be straightforward and clear! Even during labour I found midwives would say things in the most complicated manner, so I had to try to winkle out of them what they actually thought.

On the other hand, I'm still not practised enough in directness to deal with my Swedish PiL who are "Askers" (great article!). As in, "I'm having a 60th birthday party two weeks after umf gives birth. How about you leave her and the baby and bring DS1 over?". DH said no f**king way, of course, but I still feel bad about it. How dare they ask??

[BobMarley]

My husband's extended family is Irish SummerRain and you're right, I get on with them very well. I think the Irish and the Dutch usually get on well.

I once went to watch a Dutch-Irish football match in an Irish pub in Amsterdam. Can't remember who won, but both sides had a great time anyway!

[SummerRain]

You'd like the Irish then BobMarley, they have the same ability to have quite vocal discussions on personal viewpoints and still buy each other a drink afterwards with no bad feelings.

[BobMarley]

When I do go back to the Netherlands I always initially think that people are blunt and rude, but very quickly I find it refreshing again.

Particularly in the pub with friends and you can have a proper discussion about something without worrying that you might upset someone with your viewpoint. In England I'm quite careful with what I say as I'm afraid that I end up upsetting someone as they take my viewpoint often personal. Whilst I think it is just my opinion and it is absolutely fine to disagree and to tell me so. We can still be friends!

[SummerRain]

WriterofDreams... you said it better than i did with 'Irish people have a good knack for being direct politely'... I've had Irish people ask and tell very direct things but it's very rare that i've taken offence as it's always phrased kindly.

In contrast my english relatives simply make me uncomfortable with their roundabout ways of speaking and the fact that i have no idea where i stand with them (I like to know if someone likes or dislikes me so i know how to communicate with them)

And my dutch relatives are blindingly abrupt and will say whatever thought comes into their heads no matter how unpleasant it can be to hear it, which is great as you never have to guess where you stand but i can understand might be quite disconcerting if you're not used to it.

I've found over the years that the Spanish, Portugese and French are quite blunt as well.

[FindingMyMojo]

well I was going to say YABU for grossly overgeneralising, but I must say I've fallen foul of all this subtly/hinting etc & then upset people for being "rude" etc when I had no idea at all that they actually wanted me to do something else, but they were not prepared/ill equiped to come out and say it.

So I just roll on oblivious - I'm not communicating in oblique ways and if I don't get your subtle dance of 1000 fools, then don't get upset with me for failing to understand you. I'm more than happy for anyone to just ask.

So BOB YANBU!

[emkana]

While I agree that the English communicate in roundabout way a lot of the time, I much prefer it to the German way with which I grew up. When I go back to Germany I find the directness and bluntness quite rude and unnecessary at times.

[chandellina]

I prefer the direct approach but can't really think of one time in this country that i've been overwhelmed by politeness. Does that really happen?

I do notice my MIL telling me things in a very roundabout way, so that I'm smiling and laughing and saying oh wow that's wonderful as she tells me about the history of some family friend and how old they are, before saying - oh and we're going to see him this weekend as he's just had a stroke. doh.

[melikalikimaka]

Maybe, we like to test the waters first, see how the land lies, you know what I mean?

[duchesse]

Personally I sometimes find the Dutch people I know in the UK abrupt to the point of rudeness. And I grew up as an English girl in France, so do have a different cultural perspective to draw on.

I guess we're just all different, eh?

[olderandwider]

BobMarley. You will get used to it. It's a form of modesty, self defence, and our almost excruciating need not to give offence. After all, one definition of a gentleman (and lady?) is someone who never gives offence unintentionally.

[cumfy]

OP, why didn't you just get to the point ? :o

[GoreRenewed]

"Sometimes all this politeness is just a waste of time and comes across as fake. In my opinion, of course"

Politeness is never a waste of time. It oils the wheels. If you don't want to chat send an email.

If find this whole thread quite sad actually.