to get annoyed with the way English people communicate?

[BobMarley]

Now, I am not English so you can tell me to sod off to my own country if I don't like it here .

BUT I'm getting sooo tired with people talking in circles. For example, the hinting when someone need a favour or something. You don't have to have a 5 minute conversation with me just so you can ask me the question in a roundabout way. Can you just ask the question? And I'll answer with 'yes' or 'no'.

Simples and time-saving, no?

It makes me paranoid, as where I'm from you just say what you mean and what you want. No guessing and reading in between the lines involved. Half the time I'm completely missing the point of the whole conversation as it so cryptic!

AIBU?

[Francagoestohollywood]

Laquitar, in the years I spent in the UK I spent lots of time reflecting on the British respect of boundaries and personal space.
At first, it feels like a breath of fresh air... But sometimes it also felt like "we really don't give a * about you".

[fedupofnamechanging]

A way around that though is for your DP to have said "I'll ask Summer if she is available to babysit. I don't know what her plans are with the children". It is a bit difficult when someone catches you unexpectedly and you have to respond immediately.

I think I will write a list of stock phrases and leave them by the phone. I liked "I find I am watching television that evening".

[Heartsease]

Whereas I stayed in Germany with an elderly American woman who, although very keen on doilies and setting the table and saying grace, would say "Pass the butter". The unembellished imperative was like a bucket of cold water to me, even though she was clearly very proper within her own set of rules.

This supports everyone who has said this isn't just a matter of language. DP is a non-British first-language English speaker and he and I have some real mismatches of expectation sometimes.

[LittleRedPumpkin]

Mind you, bob, the thing about happiness is also a cultural difference (one I'm less fond of). My dad, in common with lots of his generation, associates declarations of happiness with rare moments of real emotional significance. You're 'happy' when a baby is born. It wouldn't occur to him to say that a good lazy Sunday lunch made him 'happy'.

However I don't know that there's a 'real' difference in happiness, just in how people express it.

[ihearthuckabees]

Very interesting thread. I think the north-south divide is definitely relevant. Northerners are much more direct.

I know I tend to be on my guard if someone asks if I'm busy. I tend to make things up that I'm doing in case they're going to ask a favour, but then if they ask it anyway, can't say no, so end up looking a right fool.

"Oh yes I'm really busy, lots of housework to do, then need to go to the bank, and of course, DS needs new shoes... What? Can I walk your dog for you. Yeah, no problem, really, I'll do my chores another day"

An inability to say no is a British disease.

[SummerRain]

I think his exact phrasing (i obviously didn't hear as dp took the call) was somthing along the lines of 'What are you guys doing Friday, you going to be home?' which dp took to mean 'Will you be at the house so i can call round?' not 'Are you free to babysit?'

DP is horrible at awkward conversations and having to be rude and his only options were to say 'Sorry, we don't want to to that' or 'Yes' (i'm sure i would have thought of something else but he's a bit useless at thinking on the spot).

Whereas if friend had asked directly he would have had no problem saying 'Oh sorry, we won't be home that night, we're heading out ourselves'

[Laquitar]

Franca, i can see what you mean, many of my non british friends have told me the same but personally i like boundaries

BobMarley, yes i think depression is linked with bottling up emotions and fearing to express them.

[Merlion]

This is interesting. I am currently living in Singapore and find Singaporeans very direct - I was told on my return to work after maternity leave that I still had a few kilos to lose (maybe true but not something I really wanted to hear) and DH was told one Monday after catching the sun over the weekend that he was looking 'less pale'.

Also I often find myself amending e-mails that are being sent by my team to our London office as I don't think they'd be appreciated as they are a little too direct!

[GothAnneGeddes]

Honestly, there are many cultures who are far less direct than the English and even more flowery in their requests. Compared to dh's culture, the English are very plain speaking, but twe do say please and thank you more.

[Francagoestohollywood]

See, personally I wouldn't have any problems in being told that I put on weight or that my hair looks bizarre (it always does), I don't find these comment offensive or intrusive (unless they are made with an offensive tone, or by a person I know is malicious etc)

[ninedragons]

PMSL at the Singaporeans. How much money do you make, lah?

I have heard things out of Singaporean mouths on first meeting that would make English people explode with embarrassment.

[cakewench]

haha the Dutch are about as blunt as they come. I'm not surprised you're having a bit of culture shock, OP.

I lived in NL for a few years, and honestly the bluntness could be annoying at times. To use your own example further up-thread- in NL people will just come up to you and tell you your child is not dressed appropriately for the weather. As if it's any of their damned business. (It will invariably be some borderline Autumnal day on which this happens, not sub-zero conditions)

I married a German, though, and I've come to appreciate a certain level of .. honesty. :o I am from the US, and we're blunt when compared with the Brits, but still amateurs when compared with the Dutch or the Germans!

The talking in circles here can be difficult for my husband. He will often try to relay to me a message, eg, "oh, Bob said it's fine to bring DS to the party." Then I will have to ask what Bob's exact words were. It's often the case that Bob really said "oh, I'm not sure there's anything that will be happening that's of interest to a 20 mo! It will be all adults there. If you're unable to find a sitter etc and if you really watch him around the Limoges collection, I suppose it would be alright to bring your son." My husband just hears "it would be alright to bring your son." :o

[Laquitar]

franca how much did you buy your house? Oh and you need to lose 3 kilos btw

[BobMarley]

I agree with Franca, Merlion. I wouldn't consider these comments offence either. Just a statement of fact. Although I have learned not to comment on people's appearances in England, unless it is positive.

[Francagoestohollywood]

We are renting at the moment, we pay quite a lot as in Milan is £££.

I know! (actually, spot on, I'd be happy to loose 3 kilos!)

[Laquitar]

Wow!! I 'm very impressed Franca!

You see, i would get annoyed

[Francagoestohollywood]

[Indaba]

Hi OP.

You should move to South Africa! The white South Africans here who are of Afrikaaner origin are incredibly blunt.

I spent my first year here with my mouth open in shock as they happily told me what I MUST do, where I MUST shop, when I MUST go......

No hint of any choice in any matters!

I had been so used to the English subtle hints method.

Its all part of the joys of living somewhere new and different. Life would be terribly dull if we were all the same.

[Goldenbear]

Out of interest is the directness applied to children aswell. For instance would you just say to a 3 year old, 'you can't eat another cake, only cake for lunch as you will get fat!'? I ask because my partner although British is Jewish and has East European heritage. His mother is British but her parents were not and she does not have an 'English' propensity for not saying what she means. She is very much the opposite and I am gobsmacked by the way her, my partner and his brother often talk to each other. I have fallen out with her when our DS was born because she is so blunt and directive at times!

My partner has inherited this manner and thinks we should tell our 3 year old he will get fat if he has another biscuit. I say we cannot possibly say that as he may have issues with food then. My friends with children would agree with me so we skirt around the fact saying it is not healthy to do so.

[WowOoo]

I get annoyed with people not getting to the point sometimes. (Not necessarily English people)

They are usually just trying to be polite and nice, so I only get bothered by it when it's close friends/family.

It would be so much easier if some of my conversations went like this:

SIL:Can you look after your nieces again this Friday?

Me: NO, I bloody well won't because it's been YOUR turn to look after your nephews for 5 bloody months. OK?

SIL: Huff. Fair enough

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

goldenbear - quite so - you don't say 'if you have another biscuit you will get fat' because it is not true (unless I am totally underestimating the size of the biscuit!), one biscuit will not make a 3 yo fat! I limit snacking by saying 'you will have one biscuit' and if they want something else I point towards the fruit bowl. No need for exaggeration.

[Francagoestohollywood]

No Goldenbear, I wouldn't tell my children not to have another cake because they will get fat, simply because I prefer not to talk about "fat" with them.

Fat is an adjective I try not to use when the children are around.

[SummerRain]

I don't say that exactly but when they ask why they can't have more biscuits i say 'Because biscuits are treats and eating too many treats makes people unwell'

They learned all about 'fat' and which foods make you fat at school, at age 4 dd came home and told me sausages and chips were unhealthy and she'd get fat if she ate them

I told her teacher obviously hadn't explained correctly, that eating too many sausages and chips would make you fat and unwell but eating them every now and again as a special dinner was fine.

[Goldenbear]

Yes but this is what my DP thinks the directness is helpful to a young child as he wouldn't tell him having one biscuit will make you fat but requests for a second and a third are refused with this direct response. He would argue that you are being indirect or ambiguous if you can't use the word 'fat' around a 3 year old and that you are projecting your own insecurities on to them if you won't use a word that describes a problem clearly to a young child.

Just trying to see if any boundaries exist in terms of this directness. Would you say to a friend your child has an incredibly big head, is this just a statement of fact or does it have negative connotations therefore you would not say it?

[Francagoestohollywood]

No, I wouldn't say to a friend "your child has an incredibly big head", no.
But we do speak about our children personalities for instance.

A while ago, a mum from school opened up about her son's SN and how she felt when she found out etc. It is quite normal in Italy to be this open even to persons you don't know that incredibly well.