to be saddened by a three week old baby in full time childcare?

[lilystyles]

At a local toddler group last week there was a childminder who I'm friendly with, she had with her a new child, a baby of 3 weeks who's mother had gone back to work full-time in teh pub she and her husband own. I am not judging this woman, it's her choice but I couldn't help but feel sad at the situation.

How is using the word 'saddened' pernicious?! And how can you say that it's not harsh to call it so sixtyfootdoll? Do you know what it means? (I'm not being facetious here, am just genuinely amazed that someone has used the word pernicious to describe someone saying they are saddened!)

I don't think anyone is projecting their "guilty" feelings on you Zondra.

I think people are just irritated by the reactions to a situation that occurs very often nowadays. A woman who goes back to work after a short maternity leave isn't a monster or not listening to what nature tells her to do.
I think our energies would be better directed at discussing how working hrs could be made more family friendly, about job sharing, policies for the family or affordable childcare.

Because at this day and age lots of families need a double income, people need/want to go out to work. It's a fact.

Zondra there are lots of circumstances where the Mum needs to go back to work. My friends husband left her while pregnant, she didnt get maternity pay in her work and needed a proper wage to pay the bills/mortgage so after 6 weeks she went back to work. Which is better, losing her home, ability to earn or leaving her child with a minder?

Did you and other posters who supported you have husbands to support you or jobs that pay maternity?

I agree that its different if you have someone like my boss who went back to work after 6 weeks even though they have lots of money and support.

I have an adequate enough vocabulary thankyou for asking DayDreamDolly

In my opinion it makes no difference if the parents are doing this through choice or necessity, having someone else look after your child is an equally valid way of parenting, and we have no right to judge these parents, and the care that they provide for their baby.

Plus, most childminders, not only are patient and competent, but do have a heart. I'd get attatched to a baby if I had to look after it, I suppose. So, it's not like the baby has been left with an emotionless robot.

But Franca, she's a stranger

Oh yes, how could I forget???

I can't imagine why you would want to do this. But IME evryone has their reasons.

It seems that if you work in a pub you own, you probably live there. You can in fact do a lot of your work in your own living room.

Things you cannot do such as pulling pints and clearing tables, can be done by employing a bar maid, costing no more than a CM.

some parents DONT have a choice and HAVE to go back to work and esp if their own business

the mum may feel guilty or she may be enjoying going back to work but she has found childcare that she is happy with and sure it is harder on the parents then on the child

tbh a baby really doesnt care who looks after them as long as fed/watered/loved/played with and nappy changed

whoops! I forgot the there Orm

We'll all be doing this soon; no more CB, University fees going up.

Whitethorn- I don't have anything against working mums at all.
I answered op's aibu of whether she was in regards to feeling sad for a 3 wk old baby being given over to a cm.
That is incrediably young & still not really the norm.
I do think it's sad.
I've not said anywhere that working mums are wrong.

Franca- I actually agree with many of your points. Working women's hours are a problem & I wish that for mums who have to work but, who don't want to be apart from their babies that there was a magic solution.

Dolly - you are either being wilfully obtuse or you are being, well, genuinely obtuse.

The use of the word saddened in this instance is pernicious because it is not being used out of genuine concern, it is being used euphemistically and is covertly critical. And is therefore potentially hurtful/harmful to parents who choose to tread this path for their own reasons.

Hmm, think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one proudnscary.
But am not disagreeing with you to be obtuse. Just have a different opinion to you is all.

It's been very interesting reading everyones opinions on this thread. Mine: I don't think there is a correlation between the number of hours spent with your child and how 'good' a parent you are!
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I was really happy in many ways, to go back to work 55 days after my DS (note: he really IS my DS!!?). I live overseas and that is the legal maternity leave here.
I'm a teacher and he is cared for (note my choice of words here!) in a an on-site creche and I can be there in 2 mins if needed. I always knew I would only have 55 days and so it never really was an issue for me. From day 1, my DS went into the most fantastic routine and the stimulation he received by being around other young babies really seemed to 'work' for him. Being cared for by a wider (controlled) circle of people has resulted in a very confident baby who enjoys people, but still knows exactly who mummy and daddy are!
I really do take my hat off to mums who thoroughly enjoy and thrive on looking after their children full time, but for me, it just wasn't possible, and I didn't really want to do it. I think it's vital as a parent, to be happy and demonstrate good values to your children. My DS has a fantastic time at the creche, and comes home to spend some real, quality time with his parents, and then we spend all weekend together. I'm relaxed, and happy and feeling fulfilled (and I know that everyone has different definitions of this, this is just mine)and i see this only as a positive thing. If we have more children, then it would probably be more cost effective for us to get a CM in the house, but we've discussed it, and having seen how good it's been for our DS to be around a variety of people, we would aim to do exactly the same thing again.
Maybe I'm lucky as my working day only runs 8-3 , no weekends, and fantastic holidays!

Well no you questioned my use of the word pernicious and asked if posters understood what it meant. That's not the same as having a different opinion.

I would comment on your use of obtuse but I shall restrain myself.

Peace out.

It would be much cheaper hiring a Childminder than a barmaid - minimum wage £5 odd quid an hour plus NI contributions, Childminder - average £4 an hour. Makes much more sense to hire the childminder.

oh YABU. Half of this thread reads like Mumsnet and half reads like Netmums

Haha!

proudnscary - saddened, as in it made me feel sad, nothing 'covert' there I'm afraid. You worry that me using the word 'saddened' may be potentially harmful/hurtful to some people, do you not think saying someone may be obtuse, is insensitive or judgmental for voicing their personal opinion could potentially cause equal harm/hurt? Surely people are as entitled to have an opinion/feeling about a situation as a mother is entitled to return to work?

Cleo- really enjoyed reading your post.
You seem to have struck a great balance.

I think the important thing here is not to condemn each other's choices.

We are all doing what we think is best within our own unique circumstances.

I like to think that being a feminist is about making our own choices as we think best.

A number of previous posters have mentioned what about the husband/partner of the woman in op's original question.
I personally think it's wrong & crap why men in these circumstances aren't under the scrutiny that the women receive.
Who knows when this shall change,though!

In the meantime, I'd like to reiterate I do not have any problem with working mothers.
I just responded to the op in my honest reaction.

I wasn't going to come on this thread but it is way more expensive to employ a bar person than a childminder. Depending on where you live childminders can start at £3.50 an hour. The minimum wage is something like £5.85 an hour plus as employer you will need to pay NI and insurance.

Also it may be that they just use the childminder for a couple of hours a day at very busy times like deliveries or lunch. My gut reaction is if it were 8 hours a day it probably isn't ideal but not many things are. 12 weeks was the norm until quite recently I think.