to be saddened by a three week old baby in full time childcare?

[lilystyles]

At a local toddler group last week there was a childminder who I'm friendly with, she had with her a new child, a baby of 3 weeks who's mother had gone back to work full-time in teh pub she and her husband own. I am not judging this woman, it's her choice but I couldn't help but feel sad at the situation.

you are making assumptions about me..

Like cory, I don't see why enjoying work and enjoying childcare are mutually exclusive. I enjoy work a huge amount but not more than being with my son and vice versa. Like cory, my life choices in terms of career were about following what interested and stimulated me as opposed to what would net the most money or social cachet. Doubtless my choices would horrify some, but they were my choices.

I think it's a bit silly to say that women enjoying or preferring something more than work "perpetuates a stereotype". Enjoyment is so subjective. Yes, it is probably somewhat socially mediated.

I stayed at home with DD when she was born, DW went back to work after a few months.

Financially, it was the only option. DW hates that she's had to work instead of stay at home, but as she earns 4 times my salary and we have mortgage / debts to match, there was no other option.

We are working to change this and DW feels guilty every day of her life, even though she shouldn't.

yes, I hate this corralling of women into a group where we are told me all are some kind of feminine thing which much prefers ironing our husband's shirt or even just staring adoringly into the eyes of the baby for 24 hours a day when plenty of us are just like men and love our families but prefer that to be for a few hours a day with a bit more at weekends.

But I do think it's wrong to criticise women but not men who return to work quickly. You can be very attached to a new baby (they are gorgeous) and still work as men manage evrey week and plenty of men do too.

arses: "I think it's a bit silly to say that women enjoying or preferring something more than work "perpetuates a stereotype". Enjoyment is so subjective. Yes, it is probably somewhat socially mediated.'

I have no problem with anybody saying they enjoy something - of course that is subjective. I just have a problem when someone says that 'most of us' hold that opinion. When really it is ultimately their subjective opinion or perception. Particularly when it isn't terribly imaginative.

I agree that enjoying work and homelife are not mutually exclusive. Men have done both relatively guiltfree for ages, without the sort of criticism levelled if women did the same.

People who work outside the home do and enjoy both. It is simply the amount of time spent on each that is different, and that again is subjective as to what is deemed to be the appropriate level for that family.

Eleanor Mill's anti housewife article in today's Sunday Times is right and she says the 3m women who are the principal breadwinner seem to get forgotten. there are 2 million housewives in the UK and 3 millino women who are the principal breadwinner but 5m of the 7m million mothers in the UK work and apparently 84% work for reasons other than just the money.

Xenia women have always worked...its not new..(I suppose it depends on your experience) my great grandmother worked...my grandmother worked...my mother worked...I work and right now I'm the priciple bread-winner...

I wonder what those reasons are?...

'apparently 84% work for reasons other than just the money'

Couldn't that be, though, becuase paid work is more valued by many in society and if that was not the case the reasons would not exist for everyone. In other words, if raising children was more valued then more people would probably choose it and less people would feel 'other reasons' to work. I felt alot of pressure to go back to work after my 1st and i did go back. Alot of the reason I did was that it was 'the norm' and I felt it was expected. I never considered being a 'housewife' until i had tried working full time and childcare. Of course not the case with everyone though.

Speaking as a single mum of 5 myself, I don't think Xenia hates men at all. I think she is right to point out that when a relationship goes tits up it is the SAHM who often suffers a dramatic change in lifestyle, and can frequently find it very difficult to get back on her feet financially speaking. I don't think Xenia likes women very much at all though, as her last post makes clear. Superior women are just like men (and just like her), apparently.

What I have an issue with is her easy and unquestioning acceptance of the rights and wrongs of that -- why does society make it relatively easy to divorce but still have things set up in such a way that a former SAHM can find it so uphill even though she may be very well educated, and certainly very motivated to work hard and get up to speed very fast when the need arises.

Jellybeans, excellent point -- the circularity of the reasoning behind not valuing the work of the SAHP is frustrating.

Cory -- your experience of not wanting to do medicine rings so true and well done for not becoming yet another time server/ status seeker in the medical world. In the last few years Irish universities have made an attempt to weed out people who would not make good doctors despite stellar grades, as they have finally recognised that an A in Honours Maths doesn't necessarily guarantee much when it comes to the practice of medicine.

The 84% (and it was apparently a statistic on a web site for working mothers) do want to work. Most women have always worked wheher that's spinning or growing crops or fishing or weaving or other work. It is nothing new that they want and like it and indeed that they have often had to do it as do men. For many of us it is a fuller life to work and have a family and nice if you can manage work.

I don't hate anyone, men or women. I find some women hard to understand but I accept people are different within the gender and that makes life fun and people interesting.

OP - I think that possibly that couple didn't have a choice and had to do this because they needed to. That's only my guess of course.

I'd say most parents, mum AND dad would love the chance to spend some time cuddling their newborn and having time with them - sadly this is not always possible.

With regards to all the other comments and general debate, I'd say that in my experience it is true that you have to look at your own circumstances and priorities and do what makes it all work for you as a family.

In our family we've made it work so that both my husband and I could keep our careers alive whilst having 4 children and largely looking after them ourselves, with a little help from nursery.

This has been very very hard work for both of us but it's been our choice and for us as a family this has worked well overall.

However, I cannot go around saying that everyone is able to do this or has the choice/will/desire/inclination to do it. A lot of people think we are crazy to work from home as they think it would drive them nuts; a lot of people think I should have given up my job and let my DH go out and further his career....people have so many opinions and it's very rare that they share your choices.

But I know I wouldn't have done it any other way and I don't regret anything.