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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that all Labour supporters must be a bit bloody thick?

207 replies

massivemammaries · 08/10/2010 23:35

I don't understand it ........ Every one I have heard moans on about being worse off under the Coalition ... why do they all think the money to bail us out of Browns' catastrophic fuck up should come from somebody else? don't they get it? we all have to pay now.

And why oh why would anybody in their right mind want Labour in again after what they have done to our country??

I am at a loss

OP posts:
MillyR · 09/10/2010 19:00

Well surely there are two different issues, aren't there? The first is whose fault is it that we are in a financial mess and what is the best way to get us out of out of the mess. It is rather silly to say people have forgotten how healthy economies work - they haven't; it is just that many people including many economists believe there are other ways of measuring utility than that proposed by neo-classical economics.

The second issue is the actual cuts. Even if we are to blame GB for the financial mess, it is still the present government who are in charge where to make the cuts, and many people think the cuts are being made in the wrong place. So I am not going to blame GB for the plan to get rid of all of my nearest town's bus services meaning that I have to move to another area if I want to have any job; I am going to blame Dave.

HumphreyCobbler · 09/10/2010 19:09

Because we didn't need to spend and spend and spend when we were in a boom. NO government has ever done this before, Labour or Tory. None. He spent money recklessly, with good intent, but often to no actual purpose. I find this deeply deeply shocking and can't understand why labour supporters are not as irritated by this as anyone else.

He spent money we did not have, over and over again. If he had not done this we would be better placed to see out the global depression, as many other countries are. No one would run they own household budget like this.

MillyR - this is the problem with cuts. No one likes them. I am going to take a massive drop in my income as I run a business that depends on state spending. But I still think the cuts are necessary. And where do you think the cuts should be placed? Labour didn't have to say where they would have done it, but they were going to make them. 20% over nine years rather than 25% over four years off the top of my head (this is probably inaccurate, I can't remember).

HumphreyCobbler · 09/10/2010 19:10

sorry, meant to add that as it is costing us over 100 million pounds A DAY to service the debt, I feel it would be irresponsible not to start paying it as soon as possible. To do otherwise means it will cost us literally billions of extra interest.

smallwhitecat · 09/10/2010 19:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

nellieistired · 09/10/2010 19:20

I had the pleasure of working in the NHS under the tories. Humphrey. I can assure you the reason the labour gov't spent so much was to rectify the horrendous underspending of the previous administration.

I agree that boom and bust should be abolished but when we have politicians who swing from the sublime to the ridiculous it is never going to be achieved.

Balance is what's needed. Sadly I doubt we'll get anything like that under this gov't.

HumphreyCobbler · 09/10/2010 19:31

no, I don't expect miracles from any government.

but I do expect a more prudent management of the economy.

I do think they needed to spend more on the NHS. I am glad they have ringfenced that spending now.

nellieistired · 09/10/2010 19:42

it wasn't just the nhs though - that th thing it was everywhere.

In fairness also the banking crisis took everyone by surprise including the bankers. It was impossible for gov't to budget for that scale of crisis.

The ringfenced funding will be going straight into the back pockets of private business with the new reforms. dont get your hopes up that the same level of service will exist in five years time if the white paper gets through.

HumphreyCobbler · 09/10/2010 20:54

it is not the failure to budget for the banking crisis though, it is the simple failure to realise that you can't borrow money continuously in order to finance a country. The cuts wouldn't be so necessary if it we actually had saved some money during the boom.

I think we should remember that we are talking about a new administration, not the last tory one. Certainly Blair and Brown were very different from their previous Labour administration. Saying you remember what it is like last time is not really an argument for what it will be like now. I certainly don't believe it is perfect now either. Just better than those who went before.

Can you substansiate your claim that private business will be pocketing money from the NHS reforms?

there are so many things that made Gordon Brown so awful

selling our gold reserves in such a stupid manner

taxing pensions

equitable life

the Kilbride scandal

thewook · 09/10/2010 21:03

Humphrey on your earlier point, people on the left believe in values that ARE morally superior to those of the right- so if you've met any lefties who believe they are morally superior then I expect that is the reason why. A belief in decency, a fair chance for all children to make a go of their lives, a society where people matter more than money= MORAL SUPERIORITY.

InGodWeTrust · 09/10/2010 21:07

I'm a Tory supporter, and I think labour supporters are a bit of a joke. You had your time to reign and you ballsed it all up. Move on over, and once the referendum is out of the way make way for a new CONSERVATIVE lead country. Yes it was the banks that fucked up the economy, but it was Labour that sent us into war, further damaging the economy.

And in regards to strikes, Thatcher had it right. Make their position no longer available or give it to those labour supporters unemployed...they knew what they were signing up for and for how much, don't try and negotiate terms.

Most people are just crying about David Cameron because he's scrapping benefits. Let me remind you all that no one is ENTITLED to benefits.

HumphreyCobbler · 09/10/2010 21:08

I too believe that people matter more than money, and in decency and in a fair chance for all children to make a go of their lives.

I just don't believe that Labour gave us that, or are likely to do so in the future.

It is posts like yours that make my point even more strongly.

thewook · 09/10/2010 21:17

Yes Humphrey! I agreed with your point- that people on the left have morally superior views on the way society should be... of course that amplified your point, do keep up!

If you do believe in those things then I think you perhaps voted for the wrong party?

Seriously, I'll wait and see what happens over the next couple of years. I think most people are open minded enough to see that there need to be some changes, and that there needs to be debate. I am pretty sure so far that the Tories are not on the right lines policy wise to deliver the kind of society I would like to see, but I'd love to be proved wrong.

HumphreyCobbler · 09/10/2010 21:27

yes you think I voted for the wrong party
I think I didn't

but we want the same things

that is why your assumption of moral superiority sticks in the throat

It might interest you to know that I voted for Tony Blair twice too. I DO regret that actually.

nellieistired · 09/10/2010 21:29

on the subject of the NHS - bearing in mind this is a synopsis.

te current pct's are being disbanded. they are not perfect. They are very administrative that said they cover largeish areas. so that all the admin is dealt by one organisation.

What is being proposed is tha GP enters consortium. This is likely to be smaller groups of gp's than are banded together under the current system. Each of theses consortia will need to contract out the management roles.

  1. there will likely be more money spent on management. The money is going to outside organisation who will want to make a profit.

other healthcare providers will be tendering for contracts to provide patient care on a larger scale than what is happening now.

These healthcare providers will also want to make a profit.

The way they will make this profit is as they are doing now cherry picking the better patients to care for (i.e.those with less liklihood of complications)
and trimming the service that the will provide.

And humphrey I know exactly which administration I am talking about. My reference to the previous Tory gov't was to justify why GB had to spend as he did. Nothing happens in isolation.

missmoopy · 09/10/2010 21:30

massivemammaries you're an idiot.

InGodWeTrust · 09/10/2010 21:32

massive mammaries, you and I should rule the world.

nellieistired · 09/10/2010 21:32

Ingodwetrust thats a good nickname with those attitudes. Lets hope you never need to rely on anyone eh?

HumphreyCobbler · 09/10/2010 21:35

thank you nellieistired

that is an interesting point you make
making a profit is slightly different to lining back pockets, but I see that ultimately this is just a different way of describing something

I see I will have to go and have a read around the subject so I can have a proper conversation with you about it.

I know you know what administration you worked under, my point was that it is not the same people now. There are some Lib Dems for a start.

edam · 09/10/2010 21:36

InGodWeTrust, sounds like you want to live in the novels of Charles Dickens. I'm sure you'd have been very happy as a workhouse boss.

Btw, how on earth do you make out that it was the war that caused the financial crisis? I think you should contact the papers. And the universities. And Chatham House. Because you clearly have great insight and have discovered something no-one else in the world knows. Jolly well done you.

InGodWeTrust · 09/10/2010 21:41

Thank you Edam takes a bow. And no nellie I don't RELY on the state to fill my pockets with money. It isn't their damned responsibility.

InGodWeTrust · 09/10/2010 21:41

And I'd make a damn good workhouse boss, because UNLIKE Labour, I don't accept slackers.

nellieistired · 09/10/2010 21:41

My point to be pedantic is that I do know who the people in gov't are and the differences between 1979-1997 and 2010.

The my nob the same people but old habits appear to be resurfacing .. as for the Libdems the phrase sold out springs to mind.

(although I note Chris Hulne(sp) was getting jittery about cuts recently)

nellieistired · 09/10/2010 21:42

may not. not my nobBlush

thewook · 09/10/2010 21:48

Humphrey it is not an assumption, it's a certainty! I don't think I'm individually morally superior- I'm not, I'm horribly selfish, petty, you name it.. BUT believing in tolerance, decency, fairness, etc IS morally right, as you yourself agree! Tory governments I have seen have NOT tended to have these values at heart. (To say the least!!! Were you around in the eighties and nineties?)
David Cameron and some other Tories may personally believe they are morally decent and fair minded, their actions will not deliver. Take the 'Big Society'- who could disagree that we need more of some of the things suggested there- if only it didn't equate to 'non existent state provision' and 'people doing vitally important jobs for nothing' and 'please show a sense of noblesse oblige fellow millionaires'

Mumcentreplus · 09/10/2010 21:56

Hmm..good work house boss?...kinda like 'good' slave driver...not something to be proud of frankly...