to find this comment about C sections annoying

[whoneedssleepanyway]

my friend and his wife are expecting their first baby which they conceived naturally after a number of IVF attempts.

he told me the other day that she will probably have a C section as her uterus is an unusual shape and they are seeing the consultant in a few weeks who will decide if she can have one.

he then said, she will be pretty gutted if she can't have a C section as everything with the pregnancy has gone smoothly to this point and it will just be better to have a C section....

it is none of my business and up to them but i found this assumption that a C section was somehow better and safer a bit naive.....

AIBU?

I am another one who ttc conceive for years, had many mcs including a late one.
I may be unusual in knowing two people who had stillbirths (though sadly this is not as rare as I thought).

I did so much research and talked to MANY consultants. Everything/everyone points in the direction of a cs being safer for the baby though less safe for the mother.

There is no way I would have risked going for a natural birth after all that research as, though the risks are small, they are real.
I wasn't bothered about me, just wanted the safest possible delivery for my much longed for, precious boy.

You may think your friend is being unreasonable becasue of course a natural birth is the best option for most people however you have no idea what mental torture you go through with infertility and the fact that you completely lose faith in your body. It is hardly as if she is of the too posh to push brigade!
YABU

YABU. I had a c-section by choice - best decision I ever made.

I was fully aware of the risks of both VB and CS, and felt happier taking the CS risks.

It really upsets me that women are unable to make this choice in the UK (unless they pay for it).

Actually, you CAN get an elective CS on the NHS. I did. You just have to be able to convince the consultant obstetrician you have thought about it and considered the pros and cons carefully.

My main reason was to avoid damage to my pelvic floor and perineum. At the time I agonised over the decision, partly because I was starting to believe all the NCT guff about "trusting your body to do what it was designed for". You only have to walk into any chemist's shop and see all the rows of Lady Tena incontinence pads to see that childbirth is one design job evolution hasn't done that great a design job on.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one of the risks of C-section for the mother is that it is associated with a higher risk of secondary infertility?

Olifin, it is, and I thought that too.

Not sure why that is - possibly it is harder for an embryo to implant on a scarred uterus? Which may make IVF less effective in the future, but not sure so please don't quote me as I'm only speculating.

I had emcs but was actually relieved as was terrified of vaginal birth. Its personal choice really. YABU.

Yes, it can be. One of the reasons is the scar to the uterus that can weaken it.

If you have experienced years of infertility, become pregnant,actually managed to stay pregnant and come close to term. All you want is your baby born in the safest (IMO - debatable fact) possible way so you get to meet your baby alive.
I won't say it didn't cross my mind but for no more than a second. Can't actually imagine ever being this lucky again.
I think some lucky people don't understand how all consuming and truly awful infertility and recurrant miscarriage is.

I feel for the couple in the OP (they probably can't believe their luck that the pregnancy had gone so smoothly so far) and hate the thought of their friends judging them for such a personal decision.

My DH and I are fortunate that we have the most supportive friends and family who were almost as overjoyed as us when we bought home our precious boy. How he entered the word didn't (seem to) concern anyone.

YABU. They are no more or less naive than first time parents who spend hours telling you about the straightforward vaginal birth they WILL be having because you just need to think positively, decline all intervention and breeeeaaaatthhheeee.

Now I know some people are lucky enough to have that experience, but everyone who has been through labour knows that things happen you cannot prepare for or expect - and not just because of all the evil medical intervention.

I personally think there is too much focus on how the baby gets out - which, after all, doesn't really matter, it will come out somehow - and that this obsession just gives new mums something else to fel shit about when things don't go to plan.

In the case of your friend, I can totally understand why she would want a c-section - and those of us that have had them know that they are by no means the easy option those who sneer "too posh to push" would have everyone believe.

Is it possible that your friend is not making assumptions about c-sections but instead has done some research into vaginal vs c-section births in cases of uterine abnormalities? I have a bicornate uterus and two cervixes and had two elective c-sections because of this abnormality and also because my first child was breech. Having done a lot of research, in my particular case I believed that a c-section was the safest way to go for my baby and I don't regret it for one minute. I was fully aware of the general risks associated with a c-section, but adding in additional risk factors associated with uterine problems led me to the conclusion that a c-section was preferable. Not an assumption, but an attempt at an 'educated guess'!

Hm re the scarring and secondary infertility.

I naturally conceived(apparently impossible) my dd 6 months after my IVF twins were born by c/s.

your right.none of your business.butt out.they are not accountable to you.

Also, although you say you know the ins and outs (ahem) of their medical history you aren't actually party to any discussions they have with the consultant.

She may tell you one thing in one way (as she's your friend and is telling you a story) but there could be is more research and discussion and medical advice surrounding it.

As an Asherman's sufferer I did think hard about the section as it can in some rare cases trigger (my Asherman's came after a too rough D&C for a miscarriage) more inter uterine scarring, but in the end this risk is small and has to be weighed against the benefits.

Anyway, she was breech so I had a section. and even then had to explain she was stargazing to any of the well meaning natural birthers I talked too.

I had my daughter on my birthday and it was a surreal moment being sliced open while a group of 10 Chinese doctors and nurses sang 'Happy Birthday To You' and then pushed her out. Da ta!

Anyway, good luck to them, and congratulations. I know what a long hard road it can be.

parakeet Soooo true ! I came round from my first C-section to see a row of women opposite me with various drains for urine etc. + bags of blood, fluid & drugs and was enormously grateful that after a 32-hour labour with 0.5cm dilation they finally put me out of my misery with an emergency CS. When preg with twins one year later I insisted, got through two lentil-chewing consultants who gave me the 'It's better for the baby' line, until I found a good old-fashioned one who authorised an elective CS. I looked forward to and enjoyed their birth under epidural with (nearly fainting) DH in attendance, and recovered very quickly, again compared to mothers who had had 'natural' birth. Found out years later during investigations for fibroids that my womb is completely divided with a wall down the middle thus the growing room was very limited. Laughed when leading Consultant informed the throng of trainee docs that 'this type of congentially malformed womb is commonly associated with miscarriage' - not in my case! DS was full-term 9lbs 2oz, twins born at 35 weeks 7lbs & 7.5lbs respectively, all beautiful & perfect, not threatened MC or any other problem. I've already told my girls that I will pay for their wombs to be scanned to establish whether they have inherited the bicornuate womb - my mum & sister also had it - and if so I would rather pay for them to have a CS if they are refused on the NHS than experience the total incompetence and agony that was my first labour :)

I think it's naive to think that birth 'doesn't matter', just as long as the baby is healthy etc. at the end of it all. I imagine perhaps this statement is more likely to be true for those who have experienced a long period of infertility and interventions.

However, the birth itself does matter to a great many women, as all those women left traumatised by their birth experiences (whether VB or CS) can testify.

acquaintances and hecklers have no business opining about their private decision

The thing is that if things go wrong during a cs you are in theatre, the doctors are all there etc etc.

If you try for a vaginal birth there might be no doctors as a matter of routine, and if things go wrong they have to get them there (which can take surprising amounts of time IME - I needed a crash section and it was an hour between the "emergency bring the doctor button" being pressed and my DD being born..)

If you are of a nervous disposition I can see how a cs might seem the best option.

Give them a break; this might be their only baby and anyway the choice is theirs.

Its true there are various risk factors to the mother that come from CS that go on beyond that birth - that of secondary infertility but also the chance of Placenta Praevia, which, if you get it, is quite scary.

I had it with a subsequent child after the emergency section I had, and there was much concern and huffing and puffing about with Dildocam trying to ascertain the exact position of this damn placenta. At one point they were convinced it had attached to my previous scar site and they'd have to do a classical incision. Turned out not to be the case. But at one point, I was actually wondering how that baby was going to come out of me whilst keeping me alive. The talk of "massive risk of torrential haeomorrage" etc etc was giving me the willies.

Bear in mind with this condition in a more severe case you are pretty much on bedrest from 30 weeks, and if you have a toddler and they dont trust you to rest, they will hospitalise you. Particularly if you have a bleed after 32 weeks - that's it, you are in till the end and they make you go to 38 weeks or haemorrage, whichever comes first!

Having said that I do think there is an unbalanced amount of talk and information on the risks of c-section which isn't matched with the same amount of info on the risk of vaginal birth.

Nobody ever informs you of the risks of vaginal birth.

Has anyone ever been sat down by a doctor or midwife and been informed of the risks they are undertaking by opting for vaginal birth?

Why do other people get so wound up by the way other women give birth. It's her birth, so her choice. Unless medically qualified and have access to her records I don't think that you can offer an opinion.

unfortunately a competitive orthodoxy of give birth chanting an incantation,bouncing on a birth ball whilst sucking a trebor mint has evolved.competitive mummies and alarmist dont let dem doctors touch you hyperbole has lead some to have a a real birth is a martyred i am goddess experience

lol @ sucking on a trebor. So true SM, so true.

Scottishmummy
So true! I remember when I was first ttc imagining this wonderful water birth with my hypnobirthing cds playing!!!
Couldn't have cared less by the time it came to delivering my son. How he came (planned cs) was magical and wonderfu in its own very personal way. I ignore all the earth mother NCT types at my baby clubs.

a mum at baby group commiserated me on "not really giving birth" as if id let the side down

i in turn liked recounting the crash sections,swift delivery and skilled team and curtain down viewing to anyone who'd listen

YABU & it's none of your business anyway. Some people would actually prefer a CS. I had no wish for a VB so had both by ELCS. Amazing how many of my friends who had VBs reckon they want a CS last time after comparing our experiences.

"Having said that I do think there is an unbalanced amount of talk and information on the risks of c-section which isn't matched with the same amount of info on the risk of vaginal birth."

So true. As martha says below, some women prefer the risks of a cs to the risks of a vb. But really, how many women make that informed choice if the risk of a botched vb are never explained to them?

The OP's friend and his wife might be on to a good thing.