to not understand the fuss over halal meat?

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317312/Waitrose-forced-ditch-halal-lamb-Duchy-range.html

Why on earth are people objecting so much? Do they really think that the standard method of killing an animal is any less cruel?

Quite mad.

Only you and me new wave.

The rest of them think that it's all a big mistake

No, halal meat can never be halal without a cut to the jugular vein, prayer or no prayer. You can kill a cow by a bolt to the head/electrocution just pray over it and it will become halal.

oops big typo there:

yopu can not kill a cow

My father was the manager of the local abbatoir when I was growing up. Previous to that, he had been a slaughterman and meat inspector. He had to allow the abbatoir he worked in to be used for Halal slaughter occasionally.

Bearing in mind he saw and supervised slaughter 5 days a week for years and years and years - he said Halal killing was cruel and that the animals suffered far more.

I don't want to eat Halal meat.

I agree with you.

I also think this thread was actually an incitement to stir up the Muslim debate. Again.

Of course it was but they tend to be thought provoking or interesting debates. Problem is some people tend to "walk on egg shells" for fear of offending others or being called bigoted.

I feel your only bigoted if you will not change your mind if your shown evidence that your opinion/position is wrong or misguided.

I have thought for a long time that there is fare to much non EU immigration in this country, this opinion is now becoming mainstream.

The European countries who ignored the indiginous populations concerns about immigration are now seeing right wing fruit loops getting into their Parliments/goverments.

You've certainly interpreted it as such, alouiseq.

Why should we choose a less humane method just to fit in with someone else's religion?

Anyway what if the next guy says "but my religion requires the animals to be whipped to death"

And someone else says "no my god requires that the animal be run over by a small cart painted pink"

If you start humouring people with ideas like this you only encourage them.

onogar :o rofl

kpandthesunshineband/Blatherskite - what you said about the animal being tipped upside down first was what I observed too in the Halal slaughter I saw but it was a sheep.

I agree that there will be some distress in that but I would say it is a normal reaction for the animal to wish to right itself and so yes 'it struggles'. However, after a brief period the animal usually calms if pinned correctly. That lead up period is to some extent abnormal but not in my view cruelty per se but actually a part of ensuring a quick and relatively pain free death.

Cattle are typically pinned by the neck before stunning in a normal abatoir which to some extent also causes a struggle but neck pinning is a common technique on farms to treat animals as is turning cows over on their backs with ropes to deal with twisted stomachs and more especially during calving.

All slaughter involves some pain and distress. The important factor is to take every possible step to minimise that. I believe traditional Halal slaughter does that even if there is no prior stun.

Incidentally, I also believe that animal cruelty and stress is far far higher during the transport/marketing stages before slaughter - an area that is very badly monitored in comparsion to slaughter regimes.

Dont even get me started on how animals were slaugtered in the Foot and Mouth outbreak. That undoubtedly breached normal humane slaughter standards in a large number of cases.

A vet once told me more or less what blatherskite said - that Halal slaughter methods were more inhumane than the standard method. I don't want to eat it and it should be labelled so people can avoid it.

If there are acceptable alternatives that involve prayer for example, then my instinct would be to ban this method of slaughter.

It's NOT pandering to Muslims. It's multi-national corporations drivings costs out of their supply chain.

"animal cruelty and stress is far far higher during the transport/marketing stages before slaughter"

I'm nodding my head in agreement here. High welfare standards all the way through the process would be ideal. But if it costs more, we are likely to see an increase in cheaper meat imports from countries where welfare standards are lower.

Coalition, you may very well be right but I still want to know/have it labled so I can fucking well avoid the stuff.

I object to being forced to comply with the beliefs of an imported religion against my will/knowledge. I have no problem with anyone's religion until such time as it affects my own freedom of choice. I hope halal isn't as horrific as it sounds, but if it is it should simply be banned, alongside putting our own house in order when it comes to animal welfare.

Brutality against animals, brutality towards humans.

Any connection ?

'Twenty years ago who had heard of Sharia law?'

I had in 1986/7 when we discussed the possibility of the establishment of Shari'a courts in the UK during a seminar on my degree course.

In Belgium (where I live), Halal meat is in the supermarkets, but is labelled separately. I do smile however at the Halal meat being next to the pork, which presumably will not be Halal in any way, shape or form.

Halal and Kosher

For me it's about the prayers - if I eat curry/kebab or eat at my muslim friends house I eat Halal (same would go for Jewish friends but I have none) - that's their CHOICE. Mine (as I am vehemently opposed to religion) is not to have Halal/Kosher. It should be clearly marked on all the packaging.