to think that it's the people with the most help with their kids seem to be the ones who struggle the most with them

[peterpiperpicked]

Ok,

Firstly, yes, you're all going to flame me. Yes, round of applause to me for managing two kids on my own with absolutely no family help or childcare, blah de blah de blah.

But, I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed that the people who seem to really struggle with bringing up small children (I mean babies and pre-schoolers) and moan about it loads and just give off a general air of not coping without tons of help are the people who have people to help them all the time?

I know loads of people with their Mum plus extended family round the corner to help out all the time and they are the self-same people who would also have a nervous breakdown at the thought of popping along to Sainsburys with a couple of kids in tow.

Then there are the rest of us who just get on with it and know that it's really not so bad and you don't need your hand holding through all of it.

So, yes flame away, I have namechanged for the occsaion. Even drop in a few platitudes about how I sound charming and it takes a village to raise a child. But seriously, aren't some people a bit crap to not be able to bring their own children up?

Women cry more often than men. This is not gender stereotyping, it is fact. And no, after two glasses of wine, I cannot be arsed to hunt up the statistics.

The reason crying is perceived as weak is that women do it when they are angry, frustrated, moved, saddened, worried... men tend to do it when they are deeply saddened. It's a womanly trait, and therefore undesirable in the office environment. It shouldn't be.

I think PPP has been EATING those pickled peppers and is therefore feeling argumentative (because of the trapped wind)

Are you flatulent tonight, PPP?

I hope you're fucking joking there! Who am I dragging 'down' to my level, and what do you imagine that 'level' is, exactly?

I can imagine worse things that judging people for conspicuously struggling and being upset, but honestly, not many. Do you also enjoy looking up funerals and mentally ticking off the mourners for looking a bit down?

Hear hear, colditz.

Or you could just shove that emotion deep down inside where it will create a nice big fat ulcer be more seemly.

I think YABU. I know mums with no help who moan, and mums with lots of help who moan! I don't even think it's to do with challenging children necessarily, I think it is just people's intrinsic personalities.

as a "coper", I do my shopping online. There is one lady who delivers to me who is chatty and lovely and another who always has a moan for me! My heart sinks when I see the latter coming up the path- if she's not grumbling about the traffic, or the weather, or the weight of the trays, it's something that happened to her a week-past-Wednesday- it's just people! Some moan, others don't.

I know single women who moan constantly about life- their health, their job, their love-life etc etc etc. It really isn't about how much help people have, it's about how they view their life. I prefer not to be around the eternal moaners, but I don't feel any "loathing" for them!!

Mwahahahahah!!

*colditz, that's really interesting! Do you know, is it something to do with chemistry or nurture? I'd love to know because DH cries more than British men seem to - but I always assumed that was just because I saw him at the more private moments.

i'm going to go and get me some of that womanity stuff. shall i pick some up for you too, ppp?

might bring out your eyes empathy, and all?

I don't boo hoo over every little thing nor am I crap as I don't do everything alone. I'm just human and emotional (which last time I checked was a 'normal' thing).
You do sound hardened and bitter - is it cos you have no help or is that why you have no help?

at Nick. To be fair, that thread does link to a description of Womanity as 'smelling pink', which is about as boak-inducing as ppp's posts.

Crying at work it's just ridiculous.

Why do you do it, just out of interest? To get support? can't you just ask for supporty?

I refer you all to my earlier observation.

Proof indeed that the definition of "misogynist" is "a man who hates women almost as much as women do".

I know people who say things like you have in RL OP, and they're the kind of people who refuse to acknowledge anyone else's opinion.

They see the expression of emotion or any opinon other than their own as a weakness, everything is black and white.

And unless you agree with them, it inevitably comes to a point where they project the feeling that you and your worthless emotions are not valid and deserving of any attention.

I'm not saying you're the person that's coming across in your OP, but just because you can't feel the emotion or know the reasons for it, doesn't mean it's not real.

ppp - I don't work, so no crying at work. Wouldn't care if someone else did, mind you. I could give you some examples though. My brother's work colleague was crying the other week - silly woman, one of her clients had killed himself and do you know, she just burst into tears? What a fool. They work with the homeless and asylum seekers, so the empathy is really going to waste.

My supervisor once got a bit weepy in front of me when one of her students had disappeared and been found dead. That was stupid too, there's no place for teachers who care about their students.

Still ... must have been they really wanted support, right? Maybe they just weren't coping right with the stuff at home, like women do?

Ask for supporty?

Well, I guess I could. I'm not sure my boss would respondy.

Why do you do it? You make it sound like a way of getting something. As I said earlier - first day back of mat leave, lots had changed (ie job EVEN more shit), had words with manager. Was already having negative emotions then an awful day on top. I was sad/upset/angry for a mixture of reasons, it came to a head and I burst into tears. I don't feel weak, a bit of a numpty maybe, but only as I worried some twunts people might be all judgey - looks like I had cause to worry!

BarmyArmy- do you have to get up extra early to be so pompous, or is it your default setting?

at maktaitai.

Why should showing emotion at work be such a bad thing? Are we all training androids to withstand torture or something?

YANBU but I think not all of us without help are such great copers as you seem to be. Since my parents died (both horrifically) a couple of years ago, to be honest I'm really struggling. We are on our own too. I have no siblings and my husband's remaining family (his parents are also deceased) are across the ocean in the States.
I get my DD to school on time each day. The pair of them are always washed, clean, well fed and happy, but I never feel like I am coping. I spend my life in a perpetual state of feeling overwhelmed. If ever I'm 3 minutes late for school and have to sign in the Book of Shame, I castigate myself all day.
I get worn out from never, ever having a break. My mum was such a hands on nanna and I know how lucky I was but to go from that to having nothing has been a shock. I think my main problem is feeling crippled by a grief that I don't ever acknowledge or deal with as I'm afraid if I start to do that I will fall apart and I cannot for the sake of my kids. I'm their last resort. I plan to worry about my own mental health the day they leave home. Until then I plan to keep a lid on things, but it's so hard at times.
Sorry OP if I don't sound so tough as I should be. I wish I could be as resiliant as you are. Can you show me how please?

I don'T think YABU, but I haven't noticed the trend you're talking about,
I haven't seen my mum since my kids were born, no extended family around, no-one to drop the baby off with in an emergency. BUt I pay someone to take the baby for 2 hours in the morning to do a bit of work, and DH takes them whenever he can.
I struggle but think I have it easy in some ways, easier than a single mother perhaps, but then a single mother might have her mother nearby.
WOmen I know who have their mother around and lots of help tend to be okay, less harried, neater houses, can work knowing someone can take their kids if they're sick

Thrug, what really helps me is if my husband take the kids (on a Sat morning, say) and I go to a coffee shop alone with a book, or a walk. Every woman has to have a couple of hours alone a week, and not in her house. BEcause a woman's house is her workplace

i think it depends on the level of support thats the family provides. If its to work, go out occasionally fine. But if its more than, say 35 hours then its taking the piss imo.
I get little help form friends or family, my family live miles away and dp's family are 2 buses away. I would only ever ask if i was stuck or to go out with dp once a month.
Surely family members i.e grannys grandas are supposed to enjoy the their grand children not used as a on call babysitter?

and wftw theres sod all wrong with crying in the office have a heart eh, some people (like me) find it difficult to control their emotions and cant contain sadness. Its not a sign of weakness, its normal!!

It is more convenient if they enjoy the grandchildren at wine o'clock a mutually convenient time though

Oh look, how wonderful

"I cope, it's easy, get on with it, & grow up losers"

Fucking lovely attitude that!

I have no problems with my children, but I have seen a grown woman in tears because of her sons. She has no help, a husband who doesn't keep a job for more than 2 days, & a full time career.

It is just hard sometimes. And I think some people some mothers would do well to remember that they don't know what goes in in other people's lives & stop judging people!

"Crying is, contrary to popular mythology, not in fact the visible sign of power draining out of your eyes. It really is just slightly salty water."
thank you Littlereddragon: that is the funniest thing I've read in a while
and certainly on this thread!!