to think that it's the people with the most help with their kids seem to be the ones who struggle the most with them

[peterpiperpicked]

Ok,

Firstly, yes, you're all going to flame me. Yes, round of applause to me for managing two kids on my own with absolutely no family help or childcare, blah de blah de blah.

But, I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed that the people who seem to really struggle with bringing up small children (I mean babies and pre-schoolers) and moan about it loads and just give off a general air of not coping without tons of help are the people who have people to help them all the time?

I know loads of people with their Mum plus extended family round the corner to help out all the time and they are the self-same people who would also have a nervous breakdown at the thought of popping along to Sainsburys with a couple of kids in tow.

Then there are the rest of us who just get on with it and know that it's really not so bad and you don't need your hand holding through all of it.

So, yes flame away, I have namechanged for the occsaion. Even drop in a few platitudes about how I sound charming and it takes a village to raise a child. But seriously, aren't some people a bit crap to not be able to bring their own children up?

It's not really about moaning though, it's about getting on with it.

Just get on with it. Moan all you like, but just get on with it FFS!

I cope badly and I know that makes me a bit pathetic. I'm really envious of people that just get on with it.

My parents are in France, in-laws are hundreds of miles away and DH works every evening. DS2 is due in a couple of weeks and the thought of doing bedtime every night by myself with 2 small children makes me weep. In fact, I will probably be doing lots of weeping.

You think us pathetic ones are annoying. Well, you copers are really annoying.

I cope badly and I know that makes me a bit pathetic. I'm really envious of people that just get on with it.

My parents are in France, in-laws are hundreds of miles away and DH works every evening. DS2 is due in a couple of weeks and the thought of doing bedtime every night by myself with 2 small children makes me weep. In fact, I will probably be doing lots of weeping.

You think us pathetic ones are annoying. Well, you copers are really annoying.

What a very selfish outlook.
Everyone is different and everyone has different lives and children.
Its not a fucking competition.

"But seriously, aren't some people a bit crap to not be able to bring their own children up?"

My mum was doing ok, not brilliantly bringing two kids up, then she got pregnant with twins to a man who offered no support whatsoever and got crippling PND.
Childcare literally saved 4 children's lives.

it isn't a case of coping though is it, I just had to, there was always an excuse as to why I couldn't have help.

Why get on with it? Why not have help if it's available? I was a single mum for a while and I got on with it. Now I have DF and DH to help. It's better. I can do it alone but I choose not to. DF adores DD so why not have him around when I go shopping. When I had PND I hated afternoons and still find them hard sometimes so I encourage DF to be around in the afternoons. No it's not the end of the world to shop with children - personally I prefer it- but if some people find it hard, so what?

Mmm. Bit lip today as was told by friend she was 'dreading bed time on her own' with both kids. My DH away for 4 weeks work (tf he has work!!) and no family to help. Same friend has mil round the corner, DH normally home from work by 5.30 each night etc etc. Grr.

IME, in the tough times, it's always the ones with the least help around for them that offer it back when you're stuck! Those with the help and family around 'em never offer a 'come and spend that long, wet tricky Sunday with us...' It's always the other singles.

I am a single paretn and have been since i was 3 months pg with dd2, my dad has help greatly and I don't kwo at tiem what I woudl have doen with out him - copied I suppose

so shot me for not doing it all on my own

Could also be , behaviour wise , children who spend time during the week with other carers often have different discipline at each place/ with person .

So , at home boundaries are tested again and again .= Hard work ?

I'm a lone parent to 2 DCs aged 3 yrs and 19 months. It's hardwork. However I've had to get used to it and manage. However I agree with others who've said it's what you're used to. I think if I did still have a H, then I'd still find it hard at times too.

I would love help from relatives but Ex PIL live in Scotland, parents are 60 mins drive away and have various health issues. So I manage.

I think Karma had it right on saying "Just a thought, but perhaps people with no help from extended family don't moan because they have no one to moan to"

That rang true for me and I wouldn't moan to my friends about how hard life is for me. I want to talk about happier things as I cannot change my situation, so I try and be positive where possible in everyday life

YANBU. I've thought this for a while.

Here's my twopence..

IMVHO people who are lucky enough to have lots of family around to help them usually take on too much to do, and run themselves ragged.

Those of us with no parental or family support just get on with it and cut our losses wrt a social life. It's just work and Dc for me - no trips at all..

What's best for the children? I don't know..
It would be lovely to have parents who I could trust with looking after DC and we go out as a couple - we haven't in 6 years.

Then again those with the hot and cold running nannies seem to have fraught lives hopping from European city to Ski Piste / Istanbul / London Fashion week etc every weekend and trying to manage that kind of life with kids, i.e. organising where to dump them this time.. must be Hell...

Which is best for the kids? Which best for the adults? Which best for both? I don't know but I do feel that I know my Dc very well, and I am willing to suck it up - they're only young once.

I find the way these threads always descend into women loathing one another (through competing claims to victimhood/worthiness) hilarious.

YABU

I think you just notice the moaning more because you think 'but they have help!'

I've had a fair amount of help - my Mum was always happy to have my LO for the day or overnight. I haven't had to work full time yet since having LO. My MIL and SIL will quite happily have her also for a day or a night or a weekend. My grandmother who is the most local can cope with her for half an hour here and there. Happy days.

Now would you like to throw in the fact that for most of my LOs life my Mum was dying of cancer and she died this year. That I've been working part time and studying part time to make a better life as a single Mum after DP left when baby was 4mo (he's back now) That MIL and SIL are a good hour drive away and I haven't a car, and that I am a carer for my grandmother who is in her late 80s.

And I cope fine. You Just Can't Tell!!!

YABU, if you are finding it so easy why the need to score points off other people? What do you want, a gold star? Pat on the back? Or just martyrdom?

And Hairymelons (fabulous name) my heart goes out to you. I was in a similar position several years ago and did lots and lots of exhausted weeping! In fact, during those evenings, my house got so cried on it almost got clean, but I was crying and cooking, cleaning, tidying, generally running life etc all at the same time.

If things are generally OK does it matter how you 'get on with it' as long as you do 'get on with it'? I guess it's like coping and not coping all at the same time. Good luck!

barmy - any man that thinks it's that hilarious obviously isn't pulling their weight with childcare and housework.

it's an emotive subject. feel free to stand on the sidelines and smirk at the little wimmin bickering over how hard/ easy it is, but could you do it quietly?

or at least join in with something productive about how you've found raising your children.

fwiw i have 3 dcs, one with cerebral palsy, and dh is in the military, with the accompanying baggage that attracts. help is scarce and i'm frequently told by passers by and professionals alike what a jolly marvellous job i do. and then i cry myself to sleep because it's so hard. but they don't know that.

yabu op. we are all different. suck it up and don't generalise.

What Val said. "Oh DH is going away for 2 days leaving me alone with the DC's"
So fucking what you gremlin

YANBU

I think this too a lot

Some of the things i hear some people moan about [rolls eyes]

Glad Mumsnet is providing you with such misanthropic entertainment, BarmyArmy

Firstly, I personally haven't noticed this at all. The people I know who are anxious and tearful are the ones without family nearby.

Secondly, it is quite natural to become accustomed to doing things a certain way. So it's normal to react to a change by becoming anxious - for example if your usual support network isn't there. Why should we expect someone who is used to having help to be confident that they don't need that help?

And thirdly, why does it piss you off? How does it actually affect you?

Oh aranea, I certainly wouldn't say it pisses me off, it just makes me think less of people.

Like people who cry in the office.

Get a grip.

That kinda thing.

How does everyone know barmyarmy is a bloke btw?

What other astute observations have you made? Older/younger mums cope less well than younger/older ones? Poor/rich mums cope better than rich/poor ones? There'll be someone to YABU/YANBU any point of view.