to think that truely feminist stance on prostitution, is to support legalisation?

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

I recently moved to an inner city area.

There is a known brothel here and a homeless shelter.

I have seen some very sad, desperate sights walking past our home lately.

I wouldn't want any child of mine involved in this trade, however this does strike as something which desperately needs regulating - for the sake of the women, girls and boys involved.

Prohibition has failed miserably.

AIBU?

How can it be that the rights above are denied to prostituted women daily, but a punter's 'right' to sex (most often with a drugged, desperate, quite possibly trafficked, unwiling, scared and quite possibly traumatized woman) must be upheld at all costs?

That's not right; point out someone, anyone saying it is, go on.

Coercion is wrong in any sphere of life, but I'm never going to deny anyone (man or woman) the right to do as they please with their own bodies. Conflating one with the other is just a sneaky way of blurring the argumant.

"They need to learn that they don't, not be offered it on a plate."

Why?

You asked the question and I answered it: men DO NOT, in law at any rate, have the right to sex, let alone to be offered it on a plate. I then pointed out what rights they, and also prostitued women DO have.

You do actually deny people the right to do what they wish with their own bodies all the time. We all do as we have laws about smoking, drugs, wearing seatbelts and even suicide. We do, as a society make laws which are collectively seen to protect people and add to the general good. I myself can't see how making laws to outlaw the sale of sex by, what by any study is collectively a pretty desperate group of people - wouldn't also add to the collective good.

I was not aware that my Humans Rights were being denied to me.

I shall be writing to my MP about this.

"outlaw the sale of sex"

PMSL here we go again!

Someone shoot me.

At least you get some sense of of Dittany

out of

will you be doing so under your real name, blackbess? btw why did you namechange here, if you have no issue with being a prostitute?

interesting point re our autonomy over our bodies, right enough, i had never thought of it like that.

My real name Aitch? As in my original mumsnet name or the name I was born under? My mumsnet name has a profile attached with photographs.

Thing is see Aich, it's very risky being a WG. A lot of people don't like you.

If you look up this thread you will see one female poster telling another WG that she doesn't think she should be working with vulnerable people. Now I have a job, quite well paid, normal type of job. How long do you think it would be before someone like you or one of our friends decided it would be in the public interest to inform my employer of my past occupation? After all I can't be trusted can I?

Or better still why not inform my parents. I obviously need help don't I? It would be for my own good. Or hang on a minute;-I have children...surely that warrants a social services investigation-what if I am taking drugs? What if I am 'grooming' my children. I must be some kind of pervert musnt I?

The greatest danger posed to WG's comes not from punters but from people who have ignorant prejudicial views on what it means to be a WG.

I don't mind people asking questions Aich but every question you ask has an agenda behind it. You already think you have the answer before you ask.

No Dittany, her name was on the lease. The business didn't need 'running', all the women were capable of sorting out their own advertising, webpages, setting fees, buying supplies. Under the law though, more than one woman working from a flat is classed as a brothel. There is no distinction between the set up you describe and the one I described under the law. The penalty is the same.

I think the main change to the law that most prostitutes would ask for is the right to work with another girl. The law, as it stands, forces us to work alone. That makes us vulnerable.
The problem with most of Dittany's figures is that where they say 80% of prostitutes, what they mean is 80% of the prostitutes we spoke to. They select the girls that they speak to very carefully.
They call the "happy hookers" the minority, but even a quick browse through Punternet or Adultwork shows this to be a lie.
I will freely admit that I don't know the absolute figures. Nobody does. This is because the happy hooker brigade generally shy away from anyone with a clipboard. So do most of the street girls (some of them are happy too).
I consider myself a feminist and I am sick to death of being told that I am not by the radicals. Apparently these days you have to be a man hater to be a "proper" feminist. When did feminism stop being about equality and start being all about female supremacy? IMO the radical feminists are no better than the men in power whose attitudes women sought to change in the first place.

Dittany! You are Julie Bindel and I claim my five pounds.

Sorry-wasn't clear. No she didn't take a cut. The cost of the rent was divided 5 ways between 5 girls.

Sadly it now impossible for girls to work this way as everyone is scared to be the leaseholder. As a result the current focus on shutting down premises means that the only people willing to put themselves on the line in this way already have criminal record and nothing to lose-usually exploitative scumbags who will 'pimp'.

BlackBess wrote - "Or better still why not inform my parents. I obviously need help don't I? It would be for my own good. Or hang on a minute;-I have children...surely that warrants a social services investigation-what if I am taking drugs? What if I am 'grooming' my children. I must be some kind of pervert musnt I?"

It sounds like one of the biggest problems for career-choice prostitutes isn't whether it's legal or not, it's that prostitution of any type conflicts with the moral values of many people who are not prostitutes.

Why is it you're willing to listen to the miserable experiences of those who were not happy hookers, but not listen to women who are happy hookers, dittany? Is only horror real enough for you? Do you think prostitutes should be miserable?

BlackBes wrote - "The greatest danger posed to WG's comes not from punters but from people who have ignorant prejudicial views on what it means to be a WG."

Another way to describe it is "people who have different moral values".

Dittany - I am surprised you actually listen to anyone! You sing from the same hymn sheet the whole time and abuse people who don't agree with you.

I for one am much more interested in the WGs opinion of how it is, and how THEY think things can be different, personally.

vesuvia, having different moral values doesn't give you the right to impose them on others by way of law.

Mandamumu wrote - "the happy hooker brigade generally shy away from anyone with a clipboard."

I'm being told it's a perfectly legal legitimate job like any other. So why shy away?