to think that truely feminist stance on prostitution, is to support legalisation?

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

I recently moved to an inner city area.

There is a known brothel here and a homeless shelter.

I have seen some very sad, desperate sights walking past our home lately.

I wouldn't want any child of mine involved in this trade, however this does strike as something which desperately needs regulating - for the sake of the women, girls and boys involved.

Prohibition has failed miserably.

AIBU?

Meant to say

It's up to the women who sell their bodies to decide.

I would say the truly feminist view is that if it's legal the women who do it are doing it through choice which is what to me feminism is all about.

I met a couple of girls in their mid twenties in NZ who said they had quite calmly considered their options and decided that because they had few qualifications it was better than shop or factory work. They intended to do it for about 5 years and squirrel away some serious money while looking for a husband.

I thought they were mature and well adjusted about it all. Though I personally couldn't do it I had to admire their attitude.

Where are the figures for that dittany? How many prostitutes do you know?

I suspect you are talking exclusively about the street prostitutes who are also addicts and lead a miserable life...they can't stop selling themselves because they have expensive habits...they may want out but it's self perpetuating....the fact is that even if it were legal, most decent brothels would never accept a full on heroin/crack addict on the books....

At least if it were legal then there could be safe places for street women to use...they don't have to sell themselves...they could always come off drugs...there is help available.

Surely the point about a vulnerable woman is that she's - vulnerable

So you don't have a woman in control of her life, in a good place emotionally and financially, who has made informed choices from a range of options.

You likely have a woman who is desperate and who sees no other choice in life.

Or one who needs a fix for drugs.

So then you have to look at what you mean by 'agreement'. An addict desperate for a fix would agree to anything. A person who has lost all hope in life would agree to anything.

Is it truly agreement? Or is it desperation, hopelessness and powerlessness?

Very few women choose prostitution out of a range of career options. Real prostitution is not belle de jour!

I don't think that women say hmm, what shall I do after uni? doctor, lawyer, teacher - ooh, I know, I'll be a prostitute. What a jolly life that will be.

There is a difference between making choices and being forced by your life circumstances into choosing something. iyswim.

But there are IMO two different types of prostitute aren't there...and it the vulnerable ones who need protecting.

I have worked with a lot of working girls and you are not going to change what they choose to do with their bodies when they are vulnerable and in the thick of addiction.

You can however protect them legally and also maybe one day when the time comes give them a chance to look at their desicions and if they feel they were treated unfairly by their emplyed at the time, take action.

When I said "Men fuck vulnerable women all the time"

I was not only referring to prostitutes.

Legislation would protect women....you can't and never will stop women selling sex..its a fact of life...why not make it safer?

Instead of speculating about what prostitutes think, here's a load of them saying exactly what they tink:

www.prostitutescollective.net/

Which appears to be legalisation, regulation and protection along with support to get out the business.

Very pragmatic.

You can't decriminalise the women and prosecute the punters!

That's like allowng the sale of cannabis but only prosecuting the buyers not the sellers!

Legislation may make the problems of prostition worse it does not make it worse for the actual working girl.

Apparently it's worked in New Zealand.

Put it this way Ditters, when was the last time you saw a headline here; "One third of all brothels closed!"

Nah, wouldn't happen as it's all underground.

It does work in NZ - I used to live there.

Proof, Ditters?

I know a few Kiwis - they've said the same LA.

Ditty....you can call me anything you like...I won't call you a wanker though!

There is no evidence that criminalising certain behaviour stops it either. Doesn't work for drugs, for paedophilia etc. Just drives it underground and ensures that criminals make money.

So, if we dissagree with you D, we're wankers?

But then I've never been adverse to shuffling me kit kat on a cold and lonely night, so who am I to argue?

A) The research is 7 years out of date.

B) Its not comparative is it?

I was only joking!

Anyway...NewZealand has MANY social issues...it's tiny and not a good example. I would be interested to see how it's wored out in Oz...I'll have a google.

No offence!

Anenome, that is true. But it makes all women's bodies commodities. And if we live in a society where it's OK to buy women's bodies because they're just things then some people will, and do, think it's OK to do whatever they like to them. The fact that they are commodities doesn't mean I have to think that's an OK state of affairs! :)

Itsjustafleshwound, how is it consensual if someone is trafficked or if someone is doing it because it's their only option or to support an addiction? I realise that isn't the case for all prostitutes, but many are doing it because they see no other options or are being forced. The fact that demand is there means there will always be supply, that doesn't make it a free choice.