to think that truely feminist stance on prostitution, is to support legalisation?

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

I recently moved to an inner city area.

There is a known brothel here and a homeless shelter.

I have seen some very sad, desperate sights walking past our home lately.

I wouldn't want any child of mine involved in this trade, however this does strike as something which desperately needs regulating - for the sake of the women, girls and boys involved.

Prohibition has failed miserably.

AIBU?

Dittany, when you can show me the numbers of women who have never been raped or assaulted or threatened with murder by their partners, then we can start talking. (I hear two partnered women a week are murdered by their DPs?)

You and I both know that if I even mention Teela Sanders you'll start distracting with "pro sex industry" bollocks, as if because I'm a whore I think it's Ok that sex slaves exist.

FWIW, I do ot support sex slavery in any shape or form.

OFFS, you asked if I have read what you have been posting. Absolutely, every word.

You are reading all sorts of messages and motives into my posts that are not intended by me. I am surprised that you think my posts have been so vile. If you care to search the darkest depraved depths of the Internet, I think you may well revise your definition of "vile".

I've done my very best to be polite to all posters on Mumsnet at all times not just on this thread.

When I was referring to prostitutes lowering their rates if clients did not want to pay so much, I was thinking purely in terms of the economic laws of supply and demand that apply to any business. I was trying to show respect by treating your business setup as a legal business. Obviously, my attempt seems to have backfired with you. I wasn't saying that you are paid too much and I certainly wasn't saying "Remember your place, bitch". God forbid! You brought that up, not me. I am now more aware of the stigma of prostitution, thanks to reading posts on this thread e.g. Mandamumu mentioning her suspicion of the media, and other posters mentioning research on stigmatisation of prostitutes. I don't agree with stigmatising prostitutes.

I do not feel "nothing but contempt" for prostitutes. Perhaps I have pointed out a few home truths that have hit a little too close to home? If you see any inaccuracies in what I have written, feel free to correct me. Comparing me to some misogynistic punter on a prostitution website won't help either of us or any other people reading the thread who wish to educate themselves about prostitution.

In my post listing things that I think a woman should consider before going into prostitution, I was pointing out what I understand to be facts. Do you think these points should be ignored. If so, why? I did not say a woman should not be a career-choice prostitute. All I hope is that a woman does not take the decision to enter prostitution lightly.

BlackBess wrote "hmm how shall I phrase this? You're a twat. That covers it just about."

Very constructive. Yet another insult.

vesuvia, I have misinterpreted you and I honestly apologise; there's another thread running talking about how we "feel" and maybe I got them confused. When you talked about the economics of it (supply and demand etc) it recalled to me too many PN threads with punters salivating over what we'd have to do, for so little money, if only we got desperate enough; it set off some kind of visceral reaction in me that I realise you didn't intend.

So I apologise for my over-reaction.

Marxism is simply a political point of view. So is your variety of feminism. Why is one better than the other? What's your issue with Marxism; I've seen you slate IUSW several times for being Marxist, but I've never seen your explanation of why it's all so much worse than your point of view.

YOU insult us! You are careless and offensive in your assumptions and yes I do understand why you are being compared to a PN punter

Would it help you to understand that we also read books, go to university and goodness would you believe it know about feminism? Back in the day when I was a lamb I wrote my dissertation on postmodernist feminism.

Knowledge of a whole swathe of literature does not equate to agreement with all aspects of the literature. There are a zillion different breeds of 'feminists' out there. Your assertion that a prostitute knows nothing of 'feminism' is ludicrous as is your banding about of the term and the title of this thread in the first place.

'bandying'. Fking shite laptop

right bed! FFS.

OFFS wrote - "As for us only being happy to do this work because we don't know about feminist attitudes to our trade..."

You said it, not me.

If you know the feminist arguments against prostitution, fair enough, but what's so bad about letting others know about the feminist arguments?

Dittany, I hope you will be in the feminist section Saturday night and together we will banter back and forth on language of sexuality,difference and marginality with regard to whoring and all the knots we tie ourselves up in with different 'feminisms'. (Saturday night is vodka night in my world).
You bring your radicalisms and i'll bring my.....deconstructed pants on backwards thingimy bobs.

I might even be sensible

Such a thread needs more vodka and I need more sleep

BlackBess, fantastic to see you about again.

BlackBess - "Would it help you to understand that we also read books, go to university and goodness would you believe it know about feminism? Back in the day when I was a lamb I wrote my dissertation on postmodernist feminism."

Of course, some career-choice prostitutes have had a good education including feminism. I didn't say all career-choice prostitutes did not know about feminism. Please do not assume that all prostitutes and women considering entering prostitution as a career choice do read books or go to university.

You appear to think that career-choice prostitutes are different from other women. If you ask the average woman in the UK to tell you about feminism, the vast majority couldn't. A reasonable logical extension of that is to believe the same applies to career-choice prostitutes and those considering entering that job. How do you know different?

BlackBess wrote - "Your assertion that a prostitute knows nothing of 'feminism' is ludicrous as is your banding about of the term and the title of this thread in the first place."

"A" prostitute knows nothing of 'feminism'- some do, some don't.

Your banding about of the term - what's your problem with that?

title of this thread - that's as much to do with me as it is with you i.e. nothing.

OFFS - wrote - "vesuvia, I have misinterpreted you and I honestly apologise;... So I apologise for my over-reaction."

Fair enough. Apology accepted.

Ok, I apologise I assumed you were talking about the women on this thread. I scanned the thread very quickly

BlackBess wrote - "Ok, I apologise"

Apology accepted.

And you'll certainly get the balanced approach from Dworkin..................

Your immediate flight to phrases such as "woman haters" really does you few favours, you know.