AIBU to think the reason some NHS trusts dont let you know the sex...

[SloanyPony]

...is nothing to do with that old chestnut that "some cultures will act on the information" (i.e have a termination if its the "wrong" sex)

And that this explanation was something designed by someone not very nice to incite racial hatred, or at best a cultural generalisation gone wrong that has somehow become "fact".

Regardless of culture/religion, surely if a person has a preference for a baby of a particular sex, they would find out earlier - or in any event, would pay privately? Seriously if its that important to you that you would terminate a pregnancy over it, surely you can find £70 for a gender scan?

Does anyone actually know? Anyone worked for a hospital and seen it in writing in a policy? Anyone got anything concrete other than anecdotal whispers that this is the reason?

Because it seems more likely to me that the reson some trusts do not tell is because they dont have time to prat about if the baby is in the wrong position, trying to find a willy or lack of one. Its an anomaly scan, nothing else, and that's what you get.

There must be someone on Mumsnet who has a really good retort for people who spout this as the reason they are not "allowed" to find out the sex - "its all their fault" bollix. Help me out, as I'm sick of hearing it. (Unless I am really wrong, I stand corrected if so)

And if I'm wrong and that is actually the reason, feel free to tell me AIBU but preferably give me more than some anecdotal evidence.

I'm not starting this thread to cause a ruck by the way, this is something that's always made my teeth itch but I've never had anything "official" enough to put a stop to the notion and I'd like to.

Thanks.

people sure will sue for any reason - I know someone who wanted to sue the hospital because her grandchild got jaundice not long after he was born and had to stay in hospital for a few more days under the lamps.

She didn't get very far!!!

I'm not living with the NHS (in Southern Ireland) and here at scans you are asked if you want to know before the scan.

I was under the impression that some hospital didn't tell because the don't want to get it wrong.

My goodness size5 .

I don't buy the cultural thing either. Sure it must happen in some cultures, maybe a lot, but I'd imagine it'd be difficult for them in Britain - to act on information obtained at 20 weeks.

Charming about a previous poster's "muslim" husband who wanted her to abort if it wasn't a boy. You hear of some truly vile men on MN but I think this man deserves a special prize.

When I had my DC (2&4 now so things may have changed) we were told that they didn't look for the sex of the child unless there were medical reasons to do so, as there was only limited time for scans and looking at baby's development came first. On the QT some the sonographers would apparently have a quick look at end if there was time (or may have spotted during scan) & will tell you "off the record". We didn't want to know anyway, so weren't bothered.

This reason made more sense, as you don't need to know for medical reasons unless there are known genetic factors that only affect one sex for example.

Haha just been reminded of when I had a scan at 16 or so weeks after taking a tumble at work and then-DP asking the sonographer repeatedly to tell us the sex if she knew. She said she did know the sex as it looked pretty obvious to her and kept repeating back at him "No sir, I can't tell you her sex." I was so embarrassed at DP's constanting asking and apologising for him nagging her it didn't register till after DD was born and we were telling a friend about it.

For the record, I was never that bothered either way and I loved the surprise I got in the end. I would never ask to find out before the birth now, unless it was for health reasons.

In Canada (or at least some provinces, not sure whether it's nationwide) they are not allowed to tell you the gender before the abortion-on-demand time limit (I think it's 24 weeks?). So there it's definitely related to the possibility of "wrong" gender pregnancies being aborted, although not to a particular culture. I gather from friends there that most sonographers will give you some pretty heavy hints, though.

Sorry to bump this but I can't help but comment. I am a sonographer and we do tell the sex at our 20 week scans. However, we do not lengthen the scan just for this purpose. We keep a lookout throughout the scan whenever we are in the right area and, if it is not obvious, we take a minute or two to have a more thorough look at the end. If we cant see within a reasonable amount of time we have to stop, due to time constraints.

The primary purpose of the scan at 20 weeks is to check the fetal anatomy for any obvious abnormalities, and checking the sex is just an extra courtesy we offer (unless there is a medical reason to check the gender). Contrary to the opinions of some of the posters on this thread it is not always easy to see - just because we can see the four chambers of the heart does not mean that it will be easy to see between the legs! (However it is also true that some boy babies will be immediately obvious as soon as the probe is applied to the mothers skin!)

With regard to the poster who thinks that the hospital will have to reveal this information if requested, under the Freedom of Information Act; if a sonographer has told you that either they cannot see the sex or that they are not allowed to tell you the sex, then this information either cannot (or will not) be recorded anywhere. How can the hospital then respond to the request for this information at a later date?

With regard to the OP's question; we found that the main reason we would like to stop telling the sex is because a lot of parents seem to think that sexing is the most important part of the scan, and don't seem interested in the fact that the reason they are there is to check that the baby is healthy. While we do understand that for some people it is very important that they know the gender, from our point of view it is less important than confirming that the baby appears healthy. It is very annoying when you are trying to get good views of the heart or spine and you have been asked 10 times whether you can see the sex yet, or mum starts prodding her tummy and asking the baby to turn over. Or you are begged several times to 'just have another look'. Or mum ends up in the waiting area crying her eyes out and complaining that she has had a bad scan, not because we have found any abnormality, but because we haven't been able to tell her the sex.

I wouldnt say it was because of legal reasons beacause it is easy to have a disclaimer (we do make it clear that it is only an opinion and cannot be 100% guaranteed). I have heard of the reason that some hospitals with high numbers of certain ethnic groups are worried that girl babies will not be welcomed, and so do not look for gender. But it could equally be that it takes a bit longer to include sexing in the scan for most people, and most NHS scan departments are so busy that this cannot be accommodated.

Phew! Sorry that was so long. Hope this clarifies the situation from an 'insider' point of view!

It's banned in India because of terminations of girls.

I'm not sure why it's racist to imagine that something that happens in one culture in one country could also happen in the same culture in a different country. It seems a bit patronising to assume such a radical cultural shift.

Skihorse I see you are ahead of me.

www.thefreelibrary.com/We+can't+reveal+the+sex+of+your+baby.+.+.you+might+sue+us+if+we+get...-a0118143941

Openly admitted by one trust that it's due to fear of litigation.

I was told the gender of my DCs at both 20 week scans. Wasn't difficult, I could spot the relevant anatomy a mile off :)

Does that work?

Bebemoose that's very interesting, and sensible!

YABVU to think that different cultures don't terminate when it's the "wrong" sex. YABU to file that fact under "racism". You might wish to investigate demographic populations of the sub-continent and china and re-think.

The OP was not implying that certain cultures dont terminate - that's easily verifiable - but that they could so easily find out privately at 16 weeks for a mere £70 that it surely couldn't be the only reason the NHS dont tell.

As if the NHS think they can stamp out this practice when there's a "Baby Bond" scanning place in every major city and town!

My friend is a sonographer and told me that they stopped telling the sex of the baby in our area due to the amount of people who would find out the sex at the 20wk scan and then come back later on saying that they'd had a fall or hadn't felt the baby move (when neither were true), just so that they could be scanned, where they would then ask the sonographer to double-check the sex. The hospital got fed up of the time-waters and stopped telling anyone She also said that it can be very hard not to see the sex of the baby sometimes, so it's not really to do with the fact that hunting around for appendages/non-appendages takes more time!

Had a chat to a midwife friend about this. Firstly, to address a point a couple of people have made, the reason for this is not because of a fear of litigation. Sonographers always make it clear that they could be wrong and that determining the sex is not an exact science. They can't be sued (successfully). By all accounts there are quite a few apocryphal tales about people suing, but even if they do they don't succeed.

Secondly, when being trained she was advised that the reason some trusts will not determine the sex is due to the potential response of some ethnic groups. She said it wasn't an issue where she trained because of the local demographic but in areas where it was, the policy would simply state that people would not be advised of the likely sex of their baby at the 20 week scan but not explain the reasons for this.

Obviously this is second-hand info, but I have no reason to doubt her and she only qualified earlier this year so is pretty up to date on these issues I'd have thought.

You wouldnt be able to sue because even if the sonographer was wrong, you (the parent) wouldn't have suffered any quantifiable loss as a result of her being wrong(your baby boy potentially having to wear a pink babygro doesnt count)so what would you be suing for?

You cant sue for "surprise" or "slight disappointment"

She certainly said it was an "old chestnut" and nasty and racist to suggest it could have anythimg to do with scanning and terminations, which is completely ridiculous. I don't know what the reasons are but it's hardly wild nasty and racist to know that gender and termination are connected in some cultures, and that other cultural practices have been imported and banned, thusaking a potential connection not nasty, racist and an incitement to hatred but a realistic possibility.

I doubt that many trusts would give that reason outright because they could be sued for discrimination

Scuse phone problems. Thusaking should be thus making and there is a lot of punctuation missing.

Thanks bebemoose. That's a very comprehensive and sensible explanation.

I think it is a lot more to do with being sued for getting it wrong. I've never heard the NHS actually say anything about cultural issues althugh have heard randoms say it

www.thefreelibrary.com/We+can%27t+reveal+the+sex+of+your+baby.+.+.you+might+sue+us+if+we+get...-a0118143941

I live in China and absolutely it happens here. I was told by my very lovely sonographer at a clinic the 90% likely sex of child. At the hospital I'll be giving birth at (foreign invested, funded, organised, run etc) that they couldn't tell because of the abortions. We asked the sonographer anyway (just to see if she would verify the first sonographer) and she didn't look but I think would have told us if it was obvious.

My OB, sorry this is vomitworthy so PLEASE look away now, told me tales of local women who will abort at 30weeks if they are told [shudder]. Taking away how wrong that is I find it so odd that women who can afford to give birth at a hospital that costs 9 grand (BUPA paying for us thank god) can't afford to just fly to HK to have the scan there

We were givent eh Cultural reason by the hospital ( a few eyars ago now) but I never assumed racism would be ascribed to me if I say that- tbh I always thought it was a stupid uneducated prick on ther PCT acting in a completely uniformed manner when making the directive.

Of course anyone who anted would get a private scan, that's clear.

They wouldn;t do it where I had ds1due to lawsuit reasons but by time I had ds3 there were happy to tell us.