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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think the reason some NHS trusts dont let you know the sex...

135 replies

SloanyPony · 20/09/2010 18:59

...is nothing to do with that old chestnut that "some cultures will act on the information" (i.e have a termination if its the "wrong" sex)

And that this explanation was something designed by someone not very nice to incite racial hatred, or at best a cultural generalisation gone wrong that has somehow become "fact".

Regardless of culture/religion, surely if a person has a preference for a baby of a particular sex, they would find out earlier - or in any event, would pay privately? Seriously if its that important to you that you would terminate a pregnancy over it, surely you can find £70 for a gender scan?

Does anyone actually know? Anyone worked for a hospital and seen it in writing in a policy? Anyone got anything concrete other than anecdotal whispers that this is the reason?

Because it seems more likely to me that the reson some trusts do not tell is because they dont have time to prat about if the baby is in the wrong position, trying to find a willy or lack of one. Its an anomaly scan, nothing else, and that's what you get.

There must be someone on Mumsnet who has a really good retort for people who spout this as the reason they are not "allowed" to find out the sex - "its all their fault" bollix. Help me out, as I'm sick of hearing it. (Unless I am really wrong, I stand corrected if so)

And if I'm wrong and that is actually the reason, feel free to tell me AIBU but preferably give me more than some anecdotal evidence.

I'm not starting this thread to cause a ruck by the way, this is something that's always made my teeth itch but I've never had anything "official" enough to put a stop to the notion and I'd like to.

Thanks.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 20/09/2010 19:32

has anyone ever sued???

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/09/2010 19:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rubbersoul · 20/09/2010 19:38

I was told that in some hospitals it IS to do with cultural/religious reasons. Not entirely sure why but that's what I heard

bulby · 20/09/2010 19:41

It's very difficult for them to tell you it's definitely a girl but they can be more certain it's a boy IYSWIM. Not sure why some places won't tell you but but perhaps there are just far more important things for them to look for (unless there is risk of a specific gender related issue)

zapostrophe · 20/09/2010 19:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

LittleMissHissyFit · 20/09/2010 19:45

"Its nothing to do with Muslims, we do not terminate babies based on sex, we are not even allowed abortions in islam at all"

You are joking of course... Hmm ...

Next you'll be telling me that the primary role services required of a gynaecologist in Egypt isn't overwhelmingly for hymen repair....

In the real muslim world, abortions happen all the time and the hospitals tell the mother it's a boy regardless. then woops, malesh.... shrug shoulders...

My dental nurse said that it was due to the high population of chinese in their area, as it is a wide spread practice.

I was told the sex of my DS, didn't cost me anything and my MUSLIM 'H' told me that if it was a girl, he'd have told me to abort....

PussinJimmyChoos · 20/09/2010 19:55

Hissy - your DH told you this? Charming, what a lovely man he must be

It is NOT Islamic to terminate on the basis of the sex and FWIW, prior to Islam, the murder of girl babies was actually very common and when Islam came about, it was made very clear that this was not acceptable

Tell your Dh to read his Qu'ran and Hadith please

Original poster
SloanyPony · 20/09/2010 20:04

See, I've never really understood the "suing" thing either. All they have to do is a simple consent form where you tick a box saying whether you want to find out or not, and signing terms and conditions (type thing) saying that you understand it is a medical opinion and not 100% set in stone.

FFS how many times does a doctor say "it looks like this rash is (a) (b) or (c), I think its (a) but lets wait and see what the test results come back with, shall we?

Its that easy not to get sued.

I have heard a lot about infanticide in China with girls etc but I thought that was more to do with the one child thing alongside the cultural boys look after parents in old age thing. I'd be more inclined to believe it if we had a big Chinese population here.

Yet in my home town (another country) where we have a massive chinese population, people routinely get told! (no child limit there though)

OP posts:
CerealOffender · 20/09/2010 20:07

my friend told me that she would tell the parents one sex and put the other on the notes. that way she was covered. if she was right they wouldn't care and if she was wrong she had the notes to back her up.

Notyetamummy · 20/09/2010 20:07

I have worked in a variety of hospitals and spent time with the sonographers.

The sonographers teaching me always checked the sex as part of the routine check - to rule out certain conditions, or ambiguous genitalia etc. It was pretty easy to see which sex was which. You can see labia if it's a girl or the penis and testicles if it's a boy, although I'm not sure what the actual success rate is.

All of the sonographers only told the parents if they asked though.

I really can't see a reason why parents would not be told, especially if you say "but this is not 100% certain". The time thing is not an issue as they check the whole foetus anyway.

GypsyMoth · 20/09/2010 20:14

littlemisshissyfit.....

I was told the sex of my DS, didn't cost me anything and my MUSLIM 'H' told me that if it was a girl, he'd have told me to abort

i'm struggling with the above!!! truly,of the crappy dh stuff i've read on here,thats one of the worst things.

strawberrycake · 20/09/2010 20:15

My trust always say 'It looks like x, but you'll find out for sure when they're born'. Very non-committal.

OmniaParatus · 20/09/2010 20:18

It is in case they get sued.

The woman in the bed next to me when I had DD was told after 2 scans she was having a girl. She had bought pink everything. She had a boy.

I noticed that this time in my anomaly scan booklet it states that you can ask the sex, and they will disclose if it is possible to see. However, they make it clear they can only be 95% certain so don't advise you to take it as a definitive answer until the baby is born.

I met the woman again 6 months later and she was totally happy with baby Max, so don't think she would have sued anyway!

ccpccp · 20/09/2010 20:19

In some cultures they want boys and they dont want girls. To think it wont have been imported into the UK is just naive.

Beveridge · 20/09/2010 20:21

According to a friend who is a sonographer in a very busy maternity unit, it's not cultural and it's not for litigious reasons.

It's actually because once you get into the realms of telling people the gender, then some people (and more than you would think)actually invent reasons for an extra scan after the 20 week one e.g. by claiming to have been bleeding or claiming to have had a fall when they haven't.

Apparently you can tell by the fact that the anxious parents are strangely far more interested if the baby is "still" a boy or "still" a girl the minute the picture is up on the screen - apparently the standard 60% accuracy rate is not enough for some people Shock Shockand they want to just 'make sure'.

Being a typical maternity unit, they don't have time for this nonsense and they found such a big difference in the amount of scans they were doing post 20 weeks once they stopped disclosing the gender that they have no plans to start again.

Sounds odd but there you have it. Nowt so queer as folk...

StickChildrenThree · 20/09/2010 20:23

I was asked by the sonographer at 20 wk scan with dd1 if I wanted to find out the sex, which I did, and was told it wasn't 100% etc

Again when pg with dts I was asked again if I wanted to know (didn't want to know that time!).
I never asked, it was offered by the sonographers and seemed to be pretty routine and I live in quite a multi-cultural city.

I had several different midwives/consultants over the course of both pregnancies and after 20 wks I got asked at every appt if I knew the sex.

MollysChambers · 20/09/2010 20:32

It is in case they are sued because they do get it wrong. My friend has two DSD's and a DD and was told she was having a boy. She had a girl.

Ulysses · 20/09/2010 20:33

With DD1 we lived in a PCT where we wouldn't have been given the sex of the baby during the scan. However, the sex was given in the details of the amniocentesis that I had, therefore I would assume it would be due to the possible inaccuracy of in finding the right bits of a sonogram.

Original poster
SloanyPony · 20/09/2010 20:34

Beveridge that makes more sense than the suing thing, the cultural/termination thing, or the time thing (I agree - there's a good chance they will come across the gender within 30 seconds, whether they want to or not, both my sexing scans they gave me an answer within about 20 seconds, I'm sure its only very rare occasions that the baby is being truly awkward)

I've always suspected its various niggly problems that arise when people have a sense of entitlement that they somehow have a "right" to know the sex - nothing to do with terminations, but perhaps hounding the sonographer to check again, or try again if baby is being awkward, and Beveriges follow up scan thing makes sense too, its a variation on that.

The abortion thing just doesn't make sense. Okay. So you have a 20 week scan, find out the sex. Then what? NHS termination? What reason do you give? Very few doctors do them this late. How long do you have, 3 weeks? Private clinic - maybe different - but then you could find out at 16 weeks and do a private termination almost 2 months earlier. Sorry, its very distasteful to even think about isn't it over something as simple as gender, though I acknowledge that it can be deeply entrenched in cultural structures what sex your child is.

I just hate it when you hear people spouting off in a know it all mock shocked voice why they couldn't find out. I have never once heard a medical person confirm that it is the reason.

OP posts:
cupcakesandbunting · 20/09/2010 20:34

I was able to find out the sex if I wished and my hospital is slap-bang next to a mosque and an area with a predominantly Muslim community so I wouldn't have thought that was the reason why...

Lynli · 20/09/2010 20:37

A friend who is Tunisian aske his wife to abort and try again, she was pregnant with their fourth girl.

I had my scan and had a DS, he offerred by £20,000 to swap babies. I just could not understand this.

I had known him a long time before this and would trust him with anything. He is a wonderful father, a good loyal and morally decent person.

I just don't understand how it could matter that much.

Gigantaur · 20/09/2010 20:37

it is not always clear as to what the sex is.

there are some that will use the information to plan their family Sad

they dont want to run the risk of being sued because they told a mum that she was getting a jimmy and out came a jane

SpeedyGonzalez · 20/09/2010 20:39

Similarly to cupcakes, my first hospital was in an area with lots of Asian people but they still offered us the option of finding out the sex. We declined as we wanted the surprise factor!

Beveridge - wow. Wow wow wow. People, eh?

Sloany - good thread. Well done for questioning this; I'd always just taken it for granted without a moment's further thought.

Original poster
SloanyPony · 20/09/2010 20:39

Wow Lynli. What did you spend the £20k on?

Grin Sorry sorry sorry

Seriously though, I wonder if it was to do with him being Tunisian, or if he just really really wanted a boy? I suppose that must happen too, nothing to do with the actual culture, religion, etc, just really want a certain sex (as happens in "my" culture - white British, Christian, essentially)

OP posts:
fedupofnamechanging · 20/09/2010 21:00

Surely, as a parent/patient, you have a legal right to know everything about your pregnancy that the HCPs know.

If the baby is lying in a position where you can't tell the gender, then I don't think people should have a right to insist upon re scanning just to discover the gender, but if the information is obvious, surely no-one has a right to withold it from you?

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