to think that if the comments reagrding the Pope and Catholicism in general were being made about any other religion or group of people...

[domesticsluttery]

...it would be deemed entirely unacceptable?

I don't just mean on MN, it seems to be everywhere. I am not a Catholic, but I am really at a lot of what I have heard.

OK, the abuse scandals are completely shocking. But this doesn't mean that the entire Catholic Church and all of its members were involved. There have been plenty of scandals involving the abuse of children in care homes where it has been covered up by so called professionals, but this doesn't mean that anyone involved in social services is implicated. There are plenty of cases of abuse, doemstic violence etc carried out by teachers, police etc and covered up, this doesn't disgrace the whole profession.

It must be pretty hard going to be a Catholic at the moment. I can't help feeling that if the same kind of comments and outright mocking were being made about other religions there would be an outcry.

Whatever happened to live and let live?

Just spotted the spelling mistake in the title. Bugger. Always happens when I'm keen to make a serious point!

"the abuse scandals are completely shocking"

Exactly. That's why the leaders of the Catholic church are being criticised.

I think you're probably right. It seems it's ok to make fun of some religions/groups of people, but not others.

I'm not sure it's just about child abuse though is it? There are plenty more issues with the Church, or - at least - the Vatican eg gay rights, women priests, divorce, contraception, abortion, stem-cell research, it's approach to HIV etc etc. It's good that many challenge the Church on these issues.

But outright mocking of Catholics in general is wrong, of course.

(I'm a passive-aggressive secularist, by the way).

It's not "making fun" to be very angry at how the catholic hierarchy has behaved, though, is it?

Apologies, it should have been its approach to HIV. (hangs head in apostrophe shame)

Well, I would be vehemently against any heavily ritualised religion (or cult, or club) which excluded women from full participation, and had hidden abuses so incredibly systematically, dealing with them as 'sin' rather than 'crime', as well as attempt to take away freedom of choice and berating homosexuality.

I found the Pope's comments about the priests in question having "no free will" just abhorrent. Other "sinners" have free will, apparently.

YABU

If you mean Islam then there is fierce debate and criticism of that religion on here and all over the world.

I can't think of any religion that it isn't ok to criticise. The problem arises when people hear critisism of their religion and take it as criticism of themselves, which mostly it isn't.

This is a democratic and secular state, we can mostly criticise religions as we like.

Plenty of discussion re the treatment of women under Islam.

"Whatever happened to live and let live?" - why shouldn't people be outraged at the Catholic church? And why should they have to keep quiet for the sake of those who choose to identify as Catholic?

"OK, the abuse scandals are completely shocking. But this doesn't mean that the entire Catholic Church and all of its members were involved" Well, yes they are actually. I would expect any decent person to distance themselves from an organistion which goes out of its way to protect child abusers. Child abusers who were in the position to abuse children thanks to their position in said organisation.

I reserve the right to judge any person who still identifies as a catholic, after all The Catholic Church is every person who calls themselves a catholic.

Oh ffs! The Catholic church is one of the richest most powerful organisations in the world. I'm not going to start feeling sorry for it because some people take exception to the appalling way it has behaved. And let's face it the modern scandals are the tip of the iceberg.

I have no problem with anyone expressing criticism of people who were actually involved in abuse and the covering up of abuse.

However an awful lot of comments seem to be aimed at the Catholic Church in general and all of its members. It is this outright mocking of their beliefs that I find most offensive.

Plenty of other religions teach things which one might disagree with, for example with regard to homosexuality or the rights of women, but they don't seem to be mocked in quite the same way as is happening at the moment.

yabu. ask our muslim posters if they feel that they are never given a hard time here or in RL.

The Catholic church is fair game in the same way as the Royal family - powerful, part of the status quo. That's why it's OK to critisise it. In fact if would be an obscenity if it *wasn't' possible to do so.

So is giving Muslim posters a hard time acceptable too then?

What a wonderfully accepting society we live in.

Oh goody- another Pope thread!

I'm an ex-Catholic, and seem to recall a fair amount of stuff about those persecuted for their beliefs inheriting the kingdom of heaven. So not that raw a deal, surely?

in the same way that parents love the child but hate the behaviour...I am prepared to love the catholic but hate the catholicism.

domestic, the catholic church is hardly reknowned for its tolerance and acceptance of others, now, is it?

or indeed hate the sin, love the sinner...

jeez, domestic, i was responding to your actual OP...

"the catholic church is hardly reknowned for its tolerance and acceptance of others, now, is it?"

But do you not see the double standard of someone criticising that and yet being intolerant and unaccepting of others themselves?

Er the reason why the RC church are getting attention right now is due to the hugely publicised and covered state visit here from it's leader.

Are you seriously suggesting the RC church are some kind of uniquely marginalised group?

I have never understood how wiht one of the main vows being poverty can result in Vatican city the richest city in the world