to think that if the comments reagrding the Pope and Catholicism in general were being made about any other religion or group of people...

[domesticsluttery]

...it would be deemed entirely unacceptable?

I don't just mean on MN, it seems to be everywhere. I am not a Catholic, but I am really at a lot of what I have heard.

OK, the abuse scandals are completely shocking. But this doesn't mean that the entire Catholic Church and all of its members were involved. There have been plenty of scandals involving the abuse of children in care homes where it has been covered up by so called professionals, but this doesn't mean that anyone involved in social services is implicated. There are plenty of cases of abuse, doemstic violence etc carried out by teachers, police etc and covered up, this doesn't disgrace the whole profession.

It must be pretty hard going to be a Catholic at the moment. I can't help feeling that if the same kind of comments and outright mocking were being made about other religions there would be an outcry.

Whatever happened to live and let live?

@ Not Tolerating Intolerance = Bad

i think you are getting yourself mixed up here, domslut.

Think you're in knots now OP.

What is your actual argument here?

Well, I was just responding to your point about "what a tolerant and accepting society we live in" - so I guess we're at a hypocrisy stalemate. And I won't apologise for being unaccepting and intolerant of a hierarchy that chose to protect its own over vulnerable children, whose apologies for this have barely gone beyond weasel words and who excuses their own by saying "they had no free will".

I am not suggesting that the RC church are some kind of uniquely marginalised group.

I am suggesting that the level of intolerance which is being shown at the moment is, IMO, unacceptable.

How am I mixed up?

How intolerant should we be, then?

Yeah folks- tone it down with all the objections to institutionalised child sex abuse, it's getting a bit excessive

I agree with the OP. I also think that those who make jokes about Catholics but are very PC about other religions are frightened, and believe in the stereotypical ideas surrounding people of other faiths.

Your OP states that you think the RC church are uniquely open to criticism.

When it was pointed out that all religions get similar criticism you said well that's terrible (paraphrased)

So which is it?

Do you think the RC church are treated differently, and if so, how?

All religions have set out their stall on ... we have the answer; we are the ones to believe & respect; do as we say and you'll be rewarded by god; don't do as we say and you'll come to a sticky end.

When you adopt the highest of moral high ground, when you ask people to sign up to 'because we say so', the very worst thing that can happen is that you are shown to be systematically hypocritical and untrustworthy from the top down. Your entire USP is blown out of the water and you become a thing of ridicule.

Muslims have something the Catholics used to be extremely good at i.e. a militant wing prepared to kill heretics in the quest for global domination. So there's a little understandable wariness when it comes to poking fun in that direction. Other faiths are not so in-your-face, nothing like as militant. They leave everyone be and are therefore left to themselves.

tbh I've never come across so much anti-catholic sentiment prior to the last year or so when the terrible mistakes the church has made has come to light. And most of the venom is aimed at the institution not the believers which cannot be said for other faith bashing.

Other religions recieve far more vitriol towards them (try being a muslim, for the last 10 years or a jew for the last 2000).

Does anyone else not think there is a general vibe that catholics can be ridiculed but other religions have to be respected? Not particularly on Mumsnet, although I have seen it, but in wider society?

Well, I feel freer to criticise Catholicism because it's the background I come from, it's something I know a fair amount about and have had time to think about. I know less about other religions and so am less inclined to comment in detail without knowing more about it.

And yy, flying.

Plus, really, don't people read the beatitudes any more?

Is this where we invoke Father Ted?

Well, I'm a Catholic and I feel bloody intolerant of the Church right now. I cannot see how bleating about being given a hard time is in any way helpful TBH. I think it is almost downplaying the horror of what has gone on. How any Catholic's faith in our church hasn't been shaken by this I do not understand. It certainly is hard going being a Catholic at the moment, but not because of what other people say about us.

"Do you think the RC church are treated differently, and if so, how?"

It appears to me (I may be wrong, this is just my opinion) that it is somehow more socially acceptable to criticise Roman Catholics at the moment than it is to criticise other groups.

For example, blatantly sexist or homophobic jokes or comments would be frowned upon. As would jokes about Jews or Muslims. Or (see another thread which was posted today) Chinese people.

However Catholics seem to be an easy target.

Surely mocking people for their religious beliefs is wrong?

As I say, it is just my opinion. Maybe other people find it acceptable.

Well said, FallenMadonna.

I'm a lapsed Catholic and don't mind beliefs being debated, protest etc. But I don't like the ridicule and p taking, especially from people who are sooo PC in other areas. It's very hypocritical.

I think there might be a 'vibe' that Christians can be ridiculed. Not just Catholics. Christianity is the default faith for most of the Western world - we know it and find it familiar, and familiarity breeds contempt. We feel safe ridiculing Christianity as it's ours. And that's a good thing. Failing to accept the status quo when there are good reasons not to is a very good thing.

Are you saying that being blatantly sexist or homophobic is a bad thing, Dom? Because you are on dodgy ground now.

Agree with DS. Mockery is wrong. Debate is fine. That goes for all religions.

Christianity is the establishment in the western world. That's why it's an easy target. But look in the media, I'm sure you'll see lots more stuff slagging off Christians than Muslims. really.

at me saying p taking on a religious thread. See how these things are ingrained

Crap! Mockery is fine, mockery is a good thing. If you can't mock and take the p* you end up with violent protest. What would you rather? A few jokes or burning effigies of the Pope?