in thinking 7 years old is not too young to walk 65 ft to the school bus

[DuelingFanjo]

story

how ridiculous of the council.

There must be more to the story that we don't know about or it is bonkers! I used to walk to the next village to school on my own at 7yrs-slightly more than a mile. Everyone did.

Well, two MNers have said they know the road and that it's safe to cross - straight (no bend), narrow (so if bus parks to let off a child no other car can overtake), 30mph speed limit, very few cars per hour. This is pretty much how the mother described it yesterday on the radio. The lack of a jumper I haven't heard about, but that sounds like someone desperately fishing for something else to cast doubts on the parents' judgement. All sounds very petty imo and there must be far graver issues that the council should concern itself with.

"I heard this on the radio yesterday morning and thought the same thing that the dad articulated - no everyone knows there's a 7 yr old doing this short trip alone - that's what has put her at risk."

This is a good point - the only thing is surely it would have been the dad who went to the papers about this, seems unlikely it was the council themselves.

On the overtaking thing - I wouldn't try to crosss the road in front of a stopped bus, apart from anything you're holding up the bus and of course you can't see what might be overtaking. Was always taught as a child it was dangerous to cross between parked cars for the same reason. They could teach her to wait for the bus to drive away giving a clear view of the road in both directions before crossing, problem solved.

borderlass - think the council here might have something to say about that! elf and safety and all that!!!

Ephiny - I agree it is dangerous to cross in front of/behind buses, but read what the MNer who lives in same village says:

*It is very very narrow... all the bus has to do is not pull up tight to the curb, thereby blocking the road and enabling the little girl to cross safely in front of him. There is not room for a car to overtake while the bus is stationary.

There is no blind corner - there is a clear view of the road in both directions.

It is effectively a narrow country lane.

It is in a 30 mph speed limit.

There is very little traffic. I use this road to do my running. I run about 4 or 5pm and in one hour I count about half a dozen cars in either direction.*

I posted a while back about our school bus service. They wouldn't let me meet DD from school if I hadn't phoned their call centre first. They said if I turned up at school in person and told the bus driver myself, I might be a child abductor, even if the headmaster or teacher said I was the parent and despite the fact that the bus driver saw me every day when he dropped DD off.

So I cancelled DD going on the school bus and she just leaves school and walks to the bus stop to get the public bus instead.

I am disturbed that people on here are saying there must be more to it for the council to have raised concerns, as if it is impossible that the council might just be wrong and over-reacting.

Even in the time my children have been growing up, there seems to have been a shift away from parents being primarily responsible for children towards various government agencies being primarily responsible, even to the point where a bus company has more say than a parent.

Of course there's more to the story. i think 7 is too young to walk unnacompanied to school, and the fact that she was wearing unsuitable clothing for the weather flags up a possible case of neglect.

borderslass - I need a strong coffee after watching that!

The trouble is thta there are only guidelines. this is a very grey area. the NSPCC recommends no child left alone under 12. they have another leaflet about children out alone, in parks etc. but they don't advise what age. thats becasue they can't.
its on an individual basis. no one ( no school, no police, no ss, no council)can tell you, the parent when your child is old enough to go to the park alone , for e.g.
If they did, they would be putting themselves in leagal jepody. someone later, would then sue them. "Johnny was abducted from the park. but the council had written to say all 10 year olds were old enough to go tot he park on theri own".

I have this EXACTLY this issue with the council at the moment. They are maintaining that older children (mine are currently 6 and 2 so doesn't apply to me at the moment), older children are old enough to go tot he park, and not play in our communal garden.
There is a meeting tonight. I am surprised that they are taking thsi stance and putting themselves in legal jepody.

I think the Council's backing down is very very telling.
"Debbie Barnes, assistant director of Lincolnshire County Council's Children's Services" : she doesn't come out of this very well. she looks like some over anxious jobsworth.

Actually the NSPCC does not say that 12yr olds cannot be left alone what it does say is that they cannot be left alone for long periods of time, which is completely different. I would have linked to their website but it isn't working at the moment.

childrenslegalcentre

"The Children?s Legal Centre advise that most children under the age of 13
should not be left at home alone. Even a short period of time on their own
can be distressing and lonely for a child, most children under 13 years of age
would not be able to cope with an emergency."

NSPCC
"Most children under about
13 are not mature enough
to cope with an emergency
and should not be left alone
for more than a very short time"

NSPCCOutAlone

lol at there being possible neglect because she was wearing "unsuitable clothing"

if youre 7yr old leaves their jumper in their locker at school, if they refuse to put it, or take it off when they leave the house - well really there's nothing much you can do.

DS1 and 2 frequently go off to school (yes walking - on their own......) without the appropriate "protective" clothing on.

They're not babies, they know if they're hot or cold, they have eyes - they can see out of the window if it's raining before they go - their choice - they now know not to whinge to me when they get home if they were too hot, too cold, or get wet.

Ds1 has been riding his bike home from school without a jumper on for the last week. Neglect, here we come !!

The Children's Legal Centre also say:

"Parents often wonder when it is safe to leave unsupervised at home.
The law does not specify an age when a child can be left at home alone. However,
parents commit an offence if leaving the child at home alone puts him
or her at risk."

It is not illegal to leave a 12yr old home alone but you have to weigh up the risks.

And the NSPCC has hedged its bets by not stating how long a "very short time" actually is.

Ds started walking to school (10-15 minutes away) on his own age 7 (initially secretly followed by us) and had to cross not one, not two, not three but four roads without a lollipop man And we live in an inner city suburb

One of these is these is the very quiet and wide and straight street our house is on, with excellent sightlines. He is been " in training" on crossing this road since as soon as he could walk. His default until recently (he is now 10) was that if there was car anywhere on the street he wouldn't cross.

The second and third streets are busier but are T-junctions or cross-roads with a busier street so that the cars have to give way anyway.

The 4th "road" is the 20m of blocked off street just before the school, so there is only the odd car going in there to park.

Last year age 9 (and for the last couple of weeks of term the year before, when he was 8) he started walking home from school on his own as well.

I am determined not to let aother people's paranoia get in the way of me encouraging ds to be independent and to learn to assess risk for himself.

We have also been told off in the past by the Out of School Club for not having dressed him warmly enough on summer outings. This is the child that insists on going out and playing in the garden in the winter in the cold and/or rain in nothing more than a football strip. He doesn't like being over dressed (unlike his mum who feels the cold )

We really are losing our sense of perspective and priorities. My dad made the telling observation that if anything were to happen to ds (or any other child), nowadays, instead of blaming the perpetrator (as would have happened in the past), it is the parents who would be "blamed"

As an aside, English schools seem to be much stricter about not letting kids leave the playground unaccompanied. I am not aware of many (any) schools in Scotland that impose such restrictions - certainly not by age 7.

Here they can leave school on their own in YR3 (or at leasdt at the DS's schools anyhow) - although the first few weeks of juniors they do still hand over to parents.

I got told off by the infant school near the end of last term for letting DS1 walk DS2 (who is just as sensible with roads as DS1 is) to the school gates.......

It only came up because they were running late so DS2 had to ring the bell on the inner gate to get in

Now I have a policy that if we're running late then I'll take DS2........otherwise DS1 has continued to walk him the 30 seconds to school

Crackfox, we are agreeing with eachother, you know. I said earlier, it is a very grey area. and there is no definitive law. there can't be. No one can say categoricaaly , every child is cappable of ... at the age of ....
they can't. it is more thna their job is worth to lay that down. impossible.

Prettybird, I agree totally with you.

WRT the children not being allowd out of the school without the parents, in ur school it is the case but only in infants. When the children start juniors (7yo) there is no checking if parents are there or not.

were in scotland to and you see kids going to school and coming home alone from the day they go full time.

I know Oblomov but I get worried that people will see this NSPCC nonsense and take it as fact. I strongly believe that this culture of wrapping children in cotton wool is a form of emotional abuse as they can leave home when they are 16 and need to learn how to navigate life without an adult constantly looking over their shoulder. Has the world really become a more dangerous place in a generation? No. I used to walk, by myself, a mile to school but now children are not "allowed" to walk 65yds to get a bus.

Being cynical I would suggest that the NSPCC et al are trying to increase their remit by suggesting perfectly normal parenting decisions are somehow neglectful. It is absurd.