(pedant alert)

[Olifin]

AIBU to wish people would say 'mischievous' rather than 'mischievious'?

And to wish that people would notice the difference between prostate and prostrate?

Too much time on my hands on a Sunday morning...

I hate 'my bad'! What on earth does it mean? It makes no sense whatsoever.

But a dictionary is descriptive, not prescriptive.

If we all did it your way the dictionary would be blank and we'd be sitting around silently waiting for someone to tell us how to speak.

I'm bemused that you have a degree in linguistics. Your thinking on this is quite simplistic.

I take your point Claw3 but a job application that is badly spelled and with incorrect punctuation will not be successful. I often edit texts where you can tell that the person is intelligent and has good arguments but the sentences just don't make sense due to poor punctuation and syntax. And that's such a shame for them.

English has very few rules compared with eg, the Latin languages etc but it still doesn't make sense without basic grammar.

Headbanger of course, you either spell things rightly or wrongly, as 2 + 2 doesnt equal 5.

But some people are unable to do this for a number of reasons and it does not make what they have to say any less important than a person who spells/speaks correctly.

Communication isnt about symbols being in the right place, its about expressing yourself and trying to make yourself understood.

Oh for the love of all that's holy and precious, of course someone's view isn't less important if it's incorrectly expressed. Don't be silly.

And of course communication is about making yourself understood.

What I am saying is that applying the rules of grammar assists in making yourself understood. You claim not to believe this to be the case, yet are yourself more or less using correct grammar, thereby nullifying your whole argument.

Am too exasperated to continue. Serves me right for butting in. As you were, fellows !

But poor spelling/grammar etc = poor communication. If the reader has to struggle to work out what you're trying to say, they will be distracted from your message.

Just to be clear: I'm not decrying grammar as pointless or elitist. I'm saying that pendents are idiots.

Headbanger, stop getting your knickers in a twist! that is what i said about 2 posts ago, the English language is there to help use communicate.

Some people are not as articulate as others and cannot spell/speak as well. How does being a pedant help these people, unless you are a teacher dealing with students, all you will do is patronise.

But the things you pendents like to whinge about aren't remotely confusing.

Everybody knows what "should of" means, just like nobody is wondering whether mischievous and mischievious mean the sane thing. Or "my bad" - a useful pithy little phrase.

If you were really concerned about poor communication skills obscuring interesting things people have to say these are not things you would be complaining about.

These are just little rules that you know, that other people don't, and you think that makes you better than them. But you are wrong.

Out interest Ski (genuine question!) - do you have anything that you're deeply interested in/qualified in/proud of/skilled in etc.? (I mean anything from the ability to run a marathon to make scones that never fail to an in-depth understanding of quantum physics).

And if so, does it truly not bother you at all if you encounter others who don't do it properly?

('Course I appreciate that this isn't a wholly successful analogy, because people don't make scones all day long except fatties like me).

Correct grammar on a job application of course,correct grammar on a message board ,nah too lazy for that

What the...Ski, I don't think I'm better than anyone! I don't even think I'm especially bright! I just genuinely think that people would express themselves more effectively if they had a good grasp of grammar, that is all! Slightly wounded that you think that's some sort of mean-spirited spiteful thing...

Well, as it happens, I'm quite well qualified in English, which may be why I am a little irritated by people with apparently limited understanding trying to spoil the language party for everyone else.

But it's not my field any more. In my current area, no I don't expect everyone to know or care about it as much as I. That would be silly.

All the very clever people I know are generous with their knowledge and don't look down on people who know less.

Sorry Headbang I didn't include you as a pendent, you don't come across as one at all.

I take your point about the grammar = elitism argument. It is very important that children are taught properly.

Exactly Ski, i feel the same way.

You would irked if someone couldnt run a marathon or make scones in exactly the same as you Headbanger.

It wouldnt bother me in the slightest, we are individuals, not robots.

Ski, if you don't acknowledge that I'm not looking down on people I am going to cry .

The point I so epically failed to make up there was that if you have an interest in something then you notice it more than others. You mightn't correct them about it all the time, but if a discussion came up, you'd probably own up to being a bit irked when people get it wrong. F'rinstance, my granny is a sensationally gifted seamstress. Her reaction to my paltry efforts is one of horror. Can't imagine why people I don't trim seams etc. etc. I suppose I feel similarly about grammar and whatnot. I don't look down on people, or think I am better than them; I'm just very sort of attuned to it, I suppose.

Yes, some of them are ski, for example, 'should of' (non-native speakers find this very confusing), Oxford comma, apostrophes.

I agree some aren't a big deal and would include mischievous here, and all that snobby English word choice eg, 'toilet', serviette' etc.

I think it's so strange that clear grammar is somehow equivalent to a superiority complex!

Crossed posts there Ski, I'll stop drooping and weeping like a dejected Victorian spinster .

Claw I have totally and utterly failed to get you to understand one single clause I have written in the past half-hour, and to that extent I am fully prepared to go and re-sit every English test I ever had...

I've never come across 'my bad'! What does it mean?

Oh hey, interesting thing re. Oxford commas:

Proper pedants (of which I am not one) forbid their use entirely. Consequently, when someone wrote the dedication in her book, "To my parents, Ayn Rand and the President", great confusion as to her antecedents ensued . Her blushes, and those of Ayn Rand, would have been saved by the insertion of the Oxford comma, even though some people won't give it house room ("To my parents, Ayn Rand, and the President").

Don't yawn! That's hilarious! Hilarious! Ahem.

Headbanger, what a back handed dig that was.

When you think that almost everyone can learn to drive, which is an infinitely more difficult and complex skill than learning basic rules of grammar, then really there is no excuse for anyone not knowing what to do with an apostrophe...

What rubbish - if you followed that line of thinking then anyone could learn to anything & everything. You could learn to sing, even if you currently can't carry a tune.

Olifin did you read my post at 19.18 or did we cross post?

You say TBH, as person who has never had an issue with written/spoken communication, I find it hard to imagine what it's like. and to a degree that's fair enough. I know people who suffer, quite a lot, and don't do things they would like to do, because they don't have the confidence due to their poor spelling/grammar - even though their contributions would be valuable.

I type quickly, conversationally and casually on here - I often type things as I'd say them to a friend, rarely as I'd write them in a formal document - it doesn't mean I'm unable to do so. It does not make me a better person because I am able to do so.

I don't think that if a dyslexic (or anyone else, come to that) made a spelling mistake, even regularly, it would be particularly irritating (can be a bit of a giveaway as to who has actually written something :)).

I think it is the general use of certain errors to the point that people believe they are correct that is irritating, especially when your job involves having to translate other people's gobbledygook into correct and clear English.

If English had been better taught over the last several years, I don't think I would end up having to waste so much time on sorting out dodgy English and could focus more on actually looking at the legal issues involved in a particular contract or whatever. I work with people of a lot of different nationalities, and have noticed that often non-native English speakers can be a lot clearer (and more grammatically correct) in how they express things than your average British manager.

And it is hard to see some of it as enriching the English language, though I am not pretending to know anything about the academic study of such things.

But Chipping I do sort of think that (within obvious confines). I also think everyone can learn to sing!

The apostrophe rules are so simple I can't see how it's any more difficult than remembering which is the clutch pedal (is there a clutch pedal?! I've never learned to drive)... and the consequences are far less terrifying. I suppose most people would have better grammar if the penalty for making mistakes was plummeting into the central reservation on the M5...

I bet it's easy to get a publishing deal if your parents are Ayn Rand and the President.

Right, I'm off to have some fish, and chips.