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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

... to Protest the Pope?

508 replies

stubbornhubby · 08/09/2010 09:03

A friend of mine told me at the weekend that this will make me an extremist...anyway we had a long thread about this in July and a few people said they'd be keen, like me, to wave a banner as he parades around the country.

There's a big march in London on Sat 18th, Hyde park Corner @ 1.30pm
details here
www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/

Also, if you live in SW London, a Small demo in Strawberry Hill on Fri 17th @9am. (NB official visti website says you will not be able to see the pope arrriving/departing SMUC - I think he must be using helicopter. Or apparating )

OP posts:

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 17:51

"Many of the people who are coming out to see the Pope are elderly and couldn't make a trip to Rome "

Because it's in the third world or something?

"Also, we have a right to see him in our own country. "

You don't. It's the second papal visit in recorded history. You're extremely lucky.

"Oh and if one more person refers to the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI as 'Ratzinger'"

It's his name, isn't it? He may be your Holy Father, but he isn't mine.

Marjoriew · 15/09/2010 17:51

How about Pope Ratty, then?

StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 17:53

Mature Majoriew so very very mature.

curryfreak · 15/09/2010 17:56

Are you an atheist per chance toyko? Some of the most bitter and angry people i've met are, so just wondering..

Sassybeast · 15/09/2010 17:57

Desperately wants to suggest 'King Rat' but doesn't want to be responsible for early labour...

StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 18:00

sassy I am absoluetly exhausted so not 100% anti the idea of getting this over with, however DH is away til Sat so I'm trying not to get too worked up til I have someone to take me to the hospital

Curryfreak I think I might love you, your comment gave me the little laugh I needed

Confuzzeled · 15/09/2010 18:00

It's not a ridiculous comment.

Your not going to be pregnant your whole life are you? Elderly people haven't always been elderly. Okay there will be exceptions to the rule but most people will at some point in their life be able to make a "once in a lifetime" trip to the Vatican. Is that not true?

The Pope visit is costing us £70 million, lets say that again £70 million pounds. To come and practice religion. If he was coming as a head of state, visiting in a non religious manner then that would be far more acceptable.

As it is, we are paying £70 million and we are a country in recession. You might not be on the verge of loosing your house and business you've worked yourself to the bone for but others are and I can think of many other more deserving things to spend the money on.

MrsMadWriggle · 15/09/2010 18:03

noellefielding "I think this outburst is partly empowered by deep rooted and subconscious Anti-Catholicism which runs old and deep in the UK".

Seriously, we're not all stuck in the Tudor times. Attitudes have moved on somewhat.

Can I just summarise some of the issues:

Anti gay
Anti contraception - how many people have contracted HIV/AIDS because of the Catholic stance on condoms? *Failure to address child abuse *Patriarchal organisation *Anti abortion *Re-admits holocaust denier to Church

(Have I forgotten anything?)

These are the reasons for protest, not some irrational prejudice based on events centuries ago.

StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 18:06

Ummmm how is being pro life an 'issue'?

MrsMadWriggle · 15/09/2010 18:08

"Ummmm how is being pro life an 'issue'?"

I nearly missed that one out Strictly on the basis that some people would protest. But it's not a great list tho.

curryfreak · 15/09/2010 18:08

Strictly, Do not laugh too hard. You need the baby to stay put till your dh gets home:)

StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 18:11

That and laughing makes me need the loo and you know your life has gone downhill when you actually think you are too tired to get up when you need the loo!

MrsMadWriggle · 15/09/2010 18:14

Don't think that digressing will get you off defending that indefensible list.

chibi · 15/09/2010 18:25

i am a catholic

i am glad people are protesting

it is a long time coming, and well deserved

tbh i am thinking v hard about joining them

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 18:25

"Ummmm how is being pro life an 'issue'?"

When, as in Nicaragua, women are condemned to a painful death because the church has managed to get the law changed so that it's illegal to operate on women with ectopic pregnancies (there is no chance of the child, and little chance of the woman surviving without treatment), I'd say it's a huge issue. Let's spell that out: thanks to your church, a woman with an ectopic pregnancy will die in order to preserve a pregnancy that will never result in a live birth. Do you support that? Or do you think an ectopic pregnancy shouldn't be a death sentence?

StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 18:34

Ok.
The Catholic church is not 'anti gay' in the sense that it goes around telling us to hit them over the head or shun them (unlike Islam for the latter). The Catholic Church teaching that homosexuality is against God's natural law as they cannot procreate. It does not seek to punish people that have those feelings, only tells them that acting on them is against the teachings of the church.

Patriarcal. Yes. The Church doesn't allow women Priests but that is not the only part of being in a Church. Women take very active roles in all other parts of Church life.

The Catholic Church is anti contraception because our teachings are based around the fact you shouldn't need it. If you wait until you are married and only sleep with one person your chances of HIV or any STD's are very very small. Yes, the Catholic Church in advocating the ideal has been somewhat left behind in a world where people don't tend to only sleep with one person anymore. But the Catholic Church cannot condone this in the same way the police don't say 'murder is wrong, but seen as people are doing it anyway it's a bit less wrong'. The Church hasn't 'spread' HIV, it just doesn't think that handing out mountains of condoms is really the answer.

CateOfCateHall · 15/09/2010 18:34

May I respond to the "gay" issue, Mrs MadWriggle?

The Catholic Church is not anti gay, but teaches that sexual acts outside marriage are wrong. The Catechism says that homosexual people "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided" (CCC 2358). Anyone not treating a person with a different sexual orientation in this manner is committing a sin, for which they would need to repent.

DS is pestering me for the computer now- hope to respond to your other points when I can.

StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 18:39

Tokyoambu I would hate you to think I was ignoring you but I lost all respect for your ability to argue rationally when you decided to brand the Pope a Nazi so I don't really feel that I wish to engage with you any further.

There are plenty of posters on here who have strong feelings towards the Church, but have managed not to drag themselves down to the absolute base level and I am really happy to debate with them.

I do think in life, however, there are boundaries over what is and what is not acceptable to say even on the internet. That is just my personal belief however.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 18:42

" The Catholic Church teaching that homosexuality is against God's natural law as they cannot procreate."

I was going to say "does that mean that sex after the menopause is sinful?" rhetorically, but it appears that it's a topic to discuss.

"The Catholic Church is anti contraception because our teachings are based around the fact you shouldn't need it. If you wait until you are married and only sleep with one person your chances of HIV or any STD's are very very small."

There are other reasons for contraception other than preventing STDs. Consider women for whom another pregnancy would be dangerous. What should they do?

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 18:45

"I lost all respect for your ability to argue rationally when you decided to brand the Pope a Nazi so I don't really feel that I wish to engage with you any further."

So why did the pope readmit a known holocaust denier, who denies the reality of the gas chambers, when the previous pope had slung him out? Holocaust denial is a hideous thing. Who, apart from Ratzinger, would go out of their way to get more holocaust deniers into the church? Or is that not "arguing rationally"?

Rosedee · 15/09/2010 19:37

Strictlytory what exactly do you mean by your comment yo majoriew? It sounds like she is talking from personal experience which is horrific. To call her immature for her to describe her abuse is quite frankly appalling. Maybe I have read that wrong but if not what on earth is wrong with you to just not care that this stuff happened to people?

MrsMadWriggle · 15/09/2010 19:41

Well said Rosedee.

StrictlyTory · 15/09/2010 19:43

I said it was immature to call him 'Pope Ratty'... I think it is. Abuse is a VERY serious issue, name calling is just so juvenile when placed next to actually abuse and I personally, find it really quite unessessary and as I'm teaching DS, name calling, especially when people can't help their name ie: RATzinger, makes only the name caller look silly.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 19:44

"To call her immature for her to describe her abuse is quite frankly appalling"

I was shocked by that, too. Apparently Strictly Tory thinks it's "immature" when people talk about abuse, but has a hissy fit if anyone mentions Ratzinger's past. As I said, that's the benefit of being Catholic: those of us outside the church get upset by the idea of abuse, while Strictly Tory and her Catholic Friends think it's immature to complain about it. A policy Ratzinger has maintained, by dismissing accounts of abuse and instead awarding the perpetrators comfortable retirements.

Simple question: how many priests have been excommunicated for abuse? I believe the answer is zero. That's the Catholic all-tolerance policy on abuse: it just doesn't matter.

tokyonambu · 15/09/2010 19:45

"Abuse is a VERY serious issue"

So why doesn't the Catholic Church take it seriously?

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