to think this woman is either badly organised or bone idle?

[Rosieeo]

My eldest went back to school yesterday, to reception class. She attended the nursery last year. A woman whose eldest child is in the year above my DC was complaining to us at the gates.

Last year this woman, who has three DC, was consistently late for school. At the earliest running up as the bell went (fair enough) but more often than not 10-15 minutes late. In the end the school gave her a bollocking (they're very hot on timekeeping), wrote to her, had meetings, but it never made a lot of difference.

Yesterday (first day) they were just over 5 minutes late and she said that the teacher had already pulled her up on her timekeeping. She felt that the teacher was out of order and that no one appreciated how difficult it was to get to school for 8.50am with three DC. Her younger ones are about 3 and 1.

I don't have a lot of sympathy, I'm afraid. I know it can be difficult and frustrating getting out of the house in the morning, I honestly do! Plus, I only have two kids. But at the risk of sounding like Miss Smug, I have NO problems getting to school for 8.50am (we're normally up at 6.30/7am) and when I have to be at work we're out the door at 7.45am. That's hard work, but still! This woman lives a ten minute walk from school and doesn't work. I'm not trying to start a SAHM/WOHM debate, just saying that she doesn't then have to get somewhere else.

I didn't say anything, because I don't really know her that well, but AIBU to think that she's either badly organised or bone idle and totally unfair to her son who gets into bother almost every day because of such bad timekeeping?

It's about attitudes to punctuality. YANBU. Being late implies other people's time is worth wasting not yours. She ultimately hurting her kids.

Sorry I missed that stealth, it did work the sense that we were there on time and she got dressed in the car, toddled in happily enough but that doesn't really solve anything does it ? It's not something we can do every day.
I had to do it because I'd said if you don't get dressed I'll take you to school in your PJ's but the next day it's back to square one.
I want her to learn that she needs to move her butt, we've had egg timers going off every 10 mins for each job, teeth brushing, getting dressed, breakfast, all a great game she loved it.

She gets no pleasure from being there on time as I know some children do and she couldn't care less if she doesn't - again my eldest would die if she was late.

i see, thanks for the reply
i think i probably would do it every day but iswym in that it didn't shock her into changing

mamatomany - I get the distinct impression that you just don't want her to sleep when normal children sleep - that you like having a child that's 'a little bit quirky' - whatever. Of course you can change a six year old sleeping habits - you just don't want to - fine, but don't expect everyone else to think it's a great idea to let a six year old determine when she gets up and goes to school. Oh and don't worry yourself over the other children she's distubing being late everyday - oh, that's right, you're not!

Beth that sounds really awful :( The difference between you and the woman in the OP is that I suspect you wouldn't say to other parents that the teacher was in the wrong for pulling you up about your time keeping. If it becomes an issue for your children, would you tell the school that you have an illness that can make you ill in the mornings and that you do your best to manage it, but it isn't always possible - you don't have to say what it is.

I thought it would, she's missed breakfast too when I've said for example you have 20 mins and we're out that door whether you have eaten or not, she didn't so she got no breakfast.
DH shouted, a lot because it was him it was affecting most, aside of the school he had places to be, the whole thing got utterly beyond a joke, her crying and then upset at school to the point school were more concerned that she didn't come in sobbing and so stressed out they couldn't do anything with her.
So we backed off and unfortunately that hasn't worked either until there are consequences that she isn't happy about for her actions then we are as we are. It's not fun for me but I don't see it on the same scale as refusing to eat anything but junk for example which one very punctual mum at school has with her child.

ChippingIn you still haven't told me how I make her sleep, really do I sit on her, glue her eyelid shut ?

Actually I'm with you on the sleep thing. My youngest is absolutely dreadful at settling down at night. He was fine as a small baby but it all changed after he was about two. He can roam around till all hours. He's often very tired, but he just can't switch off, and the more tired he gets the more hyperactive he can seem. I'm a bit of an insomniac myself so I know how frustrating it can be. We have a no coke during the week rule (he's 11) and when he was younger I was paranoid about colourings and E numbers, MSG, anything that might over-stimulate him. and I've always been a stickler for routine and reasonable rules with my kids at bedtime - they haven;t had TVs in their rooms etc. I've kind of loosened up on all that now he's older because it hasn't made much difference frankly! He was in our bed almost every night at some point or other until he was nine, because it was the only way he could allow himself to finally sleep.

But I still dragged him out every morning to go to school.

I do admit to having let him stay off sick once or twice, (no more than that though) where I know he's had such a bad night that he really needs to sleep in. but if he was doing that every night he'd just have to get up and get on with it.

mamatomany realistically if a child isn't tired they wont sleep my DS is 16 and has never slept more than 4-5 hours a night unless he's ill, unfortunately for him he has to leave for school very early as its 30 miles away. I come to life at night as well but am up early I survive on energy drinks and coffee [and weekends]

mamatomany - you need to take her into school in her PJ's for that to work, allowing her to dress in the car isn't going to change her behaviour!

Yes, I did (20:13) tell you how to get her to sleep - but of course your child is the only child nothing works for (20:15).

mama I'll repeat what you do.

You wake her up earlier and then she will be tired earlier

Seriously how is this hard??

To be fair, Chippingin, whilst I don't necessarily agree with mamatomany's attititude to the school thing, I think it's a bit much when other parents think they can dicatate what will work for all children just beacuse it works for theirs! They really aren;t all the same you know. I've read your list too - nothing new on there for me, but none of worked for my son! Though it did just fine for his brothers.

No you didn't chippingin you gave me a bedtime routine, we don't need a bedtime routine she's been in bed over an hour and a half now.
If I stay in the room it's worse, stories are a disaster, tv might work but that's not something i'm prepared to try.
I can't say i fancy giving her coffee borderlass we have tried orange juice, gave her the runs :(

No mamatomany its me who survives on the coffee not ds he's not allowed it makes him crazy.

Well it's been fun but i'm going to bed now. Night.

This lady just obviosly sees nothing wrong with tardyness.

Will she change - doubt it if she hasn't so far and doesn't see she is doing something wrong.

Did OP do the right thing not answering - yes

Is OP entitled to ask MN opinion on this - yes.

YANBU OP.

Excellent summation mumbar

I applaud you

I have to laugh at the posters who say "just get up earlier, it's not rocket science", which is very like saying "all you have to do to lose weight us eat less and exercise more", in that it is of course true, but completely ignores all the things that stop people who are perfectly well aware of that from simply doing it.

I have sympathy because I would be like that too if I were in my natural state. But I have to be on time because otherwise there will be 30 teenagers not learning anything (or more importantly, left unsupervised ), and when people in school are late, students included, it is an utter pain in the arse. Not easy to learn though. Not easy when the consequences are indirect, and affect other people.

Yeah but you don't give in to 'your natural state' do you TFM? This isn't an addiction ffs - it's really demeaning of those to compare it to that.

Hi mamatomany,

I saw a prog the other day on people with serious insomnia. I guess if you wanted your daughter to shift her routine, you could try what they recommended, which was two simple techniques: you start by applying them absolutely consistently - one, bedroom is for sleep only and nothing else, but you reduce the sleep time to the absolute minimum. The (adult) bloke in question went to be between 2-6 or summat; two, you insist on the waking up time, the same, everyday, whether you or they want to...

It worked to adjust his sleep patterns within days, and everyone in his family was happier.

Also, I had to say the ADHD word, but have you considered she may have ADHD? If she has a diagnosis then a Paediatrician would probably give you a decent liquid sedative to try to break the cycle, but they won't dish it out to just anyone until they are quite sure it's not just an environmental issue.

Ah bloody iphone updating me, anyway AHDH yes I would agree if she was up until 11pm running around the house and misbehaving every night, but she just sit quietly reading or playing snap with herself and has no other symptoms, concentration is fine, completes school work and homework.
WS I'm not sure that it is even insomnia though on the basis that when she is ready to sleep she drops off, but it's just later than suits me, I don't know maybe we just monitor the situation. If it was affecting her development I'd be on it like a flash but it really isn't. Away from the happy world of mumsnet and DH a bit, nobody's really that bothered.

DH was talking to me and look what I typed, maybe I have it

mama I'm going to take a different tact with you. I posted then went back and read the thread thro Your posts DID come across as princessdd6 I'm afraid but reading them without judging you can see that you've had a long hard struggle with dd not sleeping and have actually just decided in the grand scheme of things its not a battle worth fighting. The whole thread got a bit judgy tho

I think maybe if you seperated the 2 things your saying it would be easier.

Eg. she just won't sleep - ok some don't but then saying so she gets up when she pleases kinda devalidates the comment iyswim.

It did come across that dd was turning up 930/10 am daily as she chose no to get up but the further posts have indicated that maybe thats not what happens.

There are some fab sleep clinics out there and I expect the school would back you up for a referral - as she is late - and if you want her to sleep better then they could help.

I hope you can see why many said its your job to get her up etc as if all parents got children to school when they were ready not before the education system would be a shambles.

I have 3 dc, have evil hyperemesis (morning sickness x 1000) have to get DD out of door on time to get to secondary school, am most definately extremely disorganised in almost every way, and have a 20 min bus journey to school. I'm late no more than once a term, if and only if there have been 3 buses cut out of our bus service with no warning. If I can do it, then anyone can. Especially since I refuse to get up before 7am, and have to leave at 8am. I just get things ready the night before??!!

Did I compare it with an addiction?