to resent getting grief because I work in a private school?

[fuschiagroan]

OK, realise that people may say I am being totally unreasonable.

Just about to start my first teaching job. It's in a private school. At a dinner party the other night, my friend (well, I've known her a long time but we're not that close) was making lots of digging little comments about the fact it was a private school. Other people were asking genuine questions about the job/school, not being snarky at all, like 'So what are class sizes like?'. When I answered, e.g. 'It's fifteen to a class at most' this friend went 'God!', wrinkling her nose, as though I'd just said they had a school society for strangling baby bunnies or something. She also made comments about 'privilege' and 'unfair' etc.

OK, I know of course that it is a very privileged environment, and the kids are incredibly lucky. But why does that make me a bad person for working there? If a job had come up in a good state school I would have been just as happy teaching there, but this was the school that offered me a job.

I just think, ffs, I'm not an arms dealer. There's really no need for her to criticise my choice of workplace just because it doesn't fit in with her faux-socialism.

By the way, she got her kid into a great state school by moving into the (expensive property) catchment area - not exactly something possible for all!

Congratulations on your new job, btw, Fuschia. How rude of me not to say that already.

I'm sure you will find your new job incredibly hard work - for all the right reasons - and will soon be part of a vibrant school community.

I wouldn't want any other job than the one I have now, and I hope to stay in it until youngest is 18 I retire.

Because of the frightening level of misconceptions, double standards, and inverted snobbery, Marsha.

ah I see .

I think you have done very well to get the job too Fuschia and hope you really enjoy it.

I agree entirely Mme Blueberry. You are also very brave to admit to all of the above.
Although I wouldnt call your snobbery inverted though - it seems very much the right` way round!

I am amused by the assumption that teaching in an independent school must be a way of life rather than simply a job. I am a teacher. I needed a job. One came up in an independent school. I applied. I got it. The moral/ethical/philosophical handwringing going on on this thread actually boiled down to: do I want to be able to pay the bills? Yes? Then apply for the only part time teaching job going in the area in which I live and hope for the best!

I enjoy my job and have no qualms about working where I do: I turn up in the classroom, there are kids who need teaching and I teach them. Presumably much the same happens in the state sector. Some of my friends educate their children privately, some use the state sector but none of us would dream of judging or criticising each other because we are friends - the real issue on this thread is nothing to do with private vs state but the fact that you need more supportive friends, fuschia!

Star, I'm sorry for your predicament but deciding to send your children is not a luxury purchase. It's a life choice granted but a number of people of who do send their children to private school pay higher taxes already so you think they should pay even more!?

Do you have the same thoughts for those people who have private health insurance?

Thank you, MmeBlueberry. I am state educated myself, and my children go to state schools as I can't afford to do otherwise. If I thought that there was much chance of anything being done about the many things wrong with many state schools then I might have hung on in the state sector. Obviously everyone wants state schools to be great - then there would be no need for private schools. However, it got to a point where I thought 'If I am going to spend the rest of my working life as a teacher, I don't see why I would want to put up with this crap'.

But starlight - what about cars and clothes and holidays and all sorts - where is the line between need and luxury - and if I dont have a car or indeed a house can I offset that against my prep school fees?

im totally a faux socialist, if a job came up in a private school that paid me dosheroony, i would certainly take it and mutter something about changing the system from within

People don't pay tax on private school fees because any revenue generated by taxation would be exceeded by the costs of the extra numbers of children that would need to be educated for the state so the state would lose out.
Furthermore like it private schools produce a lot of the most talented people in the country and the Government would not wanted to discourage this as a reduction in the number of these people would harm the country's economy.

Allow me to address on of the misconceptions about private schools - that the parents are supportive, and that if these parents were in the state sector, they would automatically work to improve the schools.

Wrong.

Parents come in all shapes and sizes.

A typical private school parent pays for education so that they don't have to do anything themselves. They pay and pass everything over to the school. Those parents are not going to be an asset to a struggling state school. They are the kind of parent that you have to chase up for permission slips, that doesn't necessarily buy all the uniform, and doesn't always come to parent-teacher days. They may work long hours and are often late at picking up their children.

Another common type of parent is the one who thinks that since they are paying, they get personal service. The school should change all their policies and teaching plans for their little darlings, and they will be straight to the Head anytime something isn't just so. These parents would not be an asset to a state school.

Then you get the third, but rare breed. The ones who lovingly run the second-hand uniform shop, provide refreshments at the school play, and organise the summer ball. These parents are an asset to any school, but they number in single digits.

If independent schools were suddendly cease to exist, there would not be a magical number of helpful parents in the state sector.

does your friend work for a charity op?

presumably if all the payments that went to private schools/private health insurance went to the state, then we'd all have better state schools/nhs (unless there were too many moats that needed cleaning, I spose!)

But with things being as they are, I would always say good luck to someone who took a job at a private school. I would do exactly the same if I were a teacher. My sil is in a huuge comp and her job conditions are pretty atrocious. Only admire her for putting up with it, but I would never presume to insist that she did!

SLF, when has the state ever been better at spending money vs private enterprise?

It is really best to give the state as little as possible and let non-state bodies spend it.

I am only enough to remember nationalised industries, and how much cheaper everything is since then. When BT was a state monopoly, it was £1 a minute to the the US (I know because my DF was there). Now it is more like 1p per minute 25 years later.

Similarly with welfare activities. I roffle about Surestart, which costs the taxpayer a significant amount, but attempting to do what the churches do at no cost to the taxpayer and more successfully.

fuschia (and giddypickle) - totally agree about hypocricy of moving into an expensive catchment area.

That's what we have done and it doesn't sit particularly easily with me. We put our dc above others' dc, that's the bottom line, to give them the best education (and the kind of education) we wanted for them.

I'm honest about that (yeah yeah I know give me a medal) and certainly do not expound political objections towards private schools or feel I've walked away with my 'socialist principles intact'.

Middle class parents are sooooo hypocritical about education on so many levels it's unreal.

Don't be so defensive, fuschia. Tuff up and answer back.

Your friend has an opinion and I presume you do to.

Your friend was rude and ungracious. 'Congrats on the job' was all she needed to say. There was no need to be snidey.

To be frank, I am a 'champagne' socialist (ie. a middle class socialist, if you must categoruse it like that) and I do I hate the private schooling system myself. So yes, I do privately have thoughts about teachers who teach only the children of wealthy people, but I would never share those thoughts in RL, especially not with a friend.

Star, it is a lifestyle choice for those that can afford it. Again private health is paid for by individuals so you shouldn't expect them to pay over and above for it, that's ludicrous.

I would be willing to give up a bigger house, holidays, nights out etc for my childs education because rightly or wrongly there are not that many decent state schools when I live.

We have worked studied hard, worked hard and made strategic choices in order to privately educate our chidren. We have made many sacrifices and, tbh, I don't really give a toss what other people think of that.

It is our honestly earned money and I would not dream of telling other people what to spend their money on.

And it has been paying dividends.

That's a weird attitude to have. 'We make sacrifices.' Um, what about people who can't afford a private education for their child, no matter how many sacrifices they make?

I'll throw my (champagne socialist ) hands up in the air and say I could afford it in the morning but I choose not to. I must be terrible negligent