ear piercing for young children

[fumanchu]

I was disturbed to overhear in Claire's Accessories yesterday a mum trying to persaude her obviously distressed child to have her ear(s) pierced, saying it wouldn't hurt. The child was about 6 I think. I wasn't sure if the child had had one done and refused the next, she was crying. The shop staff just stood by. I was tempted to say something but didn't. What do you think? and shouldn't shops have some kind of age policy? personally I think its fine for say 13 yr olds and up and I know Italians for example often have babies' ears pierced but i was very unhappy about the coercion.

What do you agree about Novice? Can you show us all where anyone has been racist?

I might wait till dh is asleep & pierce his ears, actually. I'm sure he won't mind...

...or then again, he might quite reasonably have me charged with assault.

I quite like piercings, but I find the idea of subjecting a tiny child to them repugnant.

Sorry & all that, & I wouldn't bother telling anyone so in RL if they were determined to have it done to their kids, but there it is. Disfiguring & potentially dangerous, what's to like?

FFS.

Slagging off parents for having baby ears pierced.

Yet criticize someone for giving formula milk - oh dear no, we mustn't hurt anyone's FEELINGS. Not that giving formula milk is a cultural thing though...oh wait...

I read racist connotation too in what was said.

In addition, using the term 'the race card' has certain implications about the person using that term in my experience.

Novice - I'll direct this at you as clearly we are told what to do and how to feel and how to take people's comments.

My view is that it's chavvy unless it's for cultural reasons (ie not a european one) and then it's abuse.

There, I've said how I take the comments.

But quite honestly I don't care - my life chances are not affected by this.

Guys - you know what - sometimes cultural things have no particular weight but people go along with them as they like them - you know - like your daughters might like to wear pink and your son's like blue.

Not particularly dangerous.

OTT, in my culture, a lot of attention is paid to our ancestors. i.e. we believe that the ancestors will walk with you in spirit form at certain times of your life and that they are always around you. Just as there are good people and bad people on earth, there are also good and bad ancestors. The belief is that if you don't do things to ward off the bad ancestors or you don't do things to get the good ancestors to continue looking after you, then your life on earth will be more difficult. Paying heed to ancestors at the most important events of ones life is therefore important - so includes, births, marriages, new home and deaths. oh and even divorces! The belief is that the bad ancestoral spirit will try and enter a child's body and therefore return to earth. By piercing the ear the cultural belief is that they will pass through and the child will be protected. That is why it has to happen so quickly. In addition, it is very important that a child is named quickly, and similarly the ancestors are invoked on this day too. Oh and its important to name the child after a good ancestor as well, so that they will always protect you.

I hope that gives you insight. It is what happens in my culture but I believe from the brief conversations I have had with people from a wide variety of other cultures that the reasons are different.Aa child I was only ever allowed to wear plain studs and even now rarely deviate from that. DD has been given bracelets and necklaces as presents but doesn't wear any of them. Some lovely (English) friends have also given DD earrings that are slightly decorative. Again she doesn't wear them.

I agree with Electra re the observations that some people have made that having your ears pierced is on a par with female circumcision, which as she says has implications for all your adult life. If done correctly, and the ears are looked after correctly, the pain of ear piercing is never felt after the initial prick. My DD didn't even flinch when her ears were pierced (at one week) and didn't cry. Neither did she cry at her heel prick or 2 month jab. It's only at her 3 month jab that she cried.

Ear piercing comes up over and over on MN and each time, I get angry at the view tahat it is only ever done for one reason (for decoration and even on this thread it has been said that the cultural reason must be for decoration) but have never said anything before. I posted today because I thought it would be good to give a different viewpoint.

www.erik-rasmussen.com/blog/2009/04/09/cultural-baby-mutilation/

mrz that's very interesting but as I have already explained the ear piercing isn't done for decorative reasons in our culture. I believe it to be the same in a lot of other cultures. I am not saying that all cultures are the same but I wouldn't want the facts get in a way of a good yarn.

noviceoftheday I haven't read any of the thread so I don't know which culture you are part of ...are you Spanish?
I saw the thread title and remembered reading the blog and thought others may find it interesting.

Do not put holes/cut children. It is wrong. Shove your cultural, superstitious nonsense. It has no place in modern society.

Why are assuming that it's supertitious nonsense.

It might just be cultural - like pink for girls etc. And, sorry, a baby having their ear pierced and looked after well so no infection (like a piercing at any age) does not, in my opinion, render them abused.

electra....that's a load of bullshit. The 'race card' was a term frequently used in the OJ trial, which is where I got it. I'm frankly insulted by, and have very low opinions of, people that accuse me of racism because I don't think culture is a good enough excuse for putting holes in a child's ears. I am very pleased to be what I am and where I come from, I am sure you are too. As noone had discussed where they're from I find it hard to believe that anyone is dumb enough to talk about racism.

You see, i find that beautiful in sentiment Novice, but I still find the age and consent a personal problem, and TBH, in the future i feel that certain aspects of different cultures will be the dmise of them altogehter in the end, which, really isn't nessecary, its our worlds history.
BUT.
Why in this more knowledgeable age can't cultures evolve and leave physical passages of rites etc at the proverbial ancient door?

There is no reason in civilised society to hurt a baby for these reasons, IMO.
If we can't connect to our ancestors/past without physically putting a hole in a baby then maybe we need to readress what the really important aspects of cultures are, ie, way of life, treating other people, respecting human life etc than folding into superstision?

Racism??? We're talking about sticking a piece of metal through a child of any colour, race, heritage, religion, whatever. No one has said all asians/blacks/whites/ are crap because they do this. They've said that not all cultural practices are good so why is ear piercing good. I don't think ear piercing on a baby looks good no matter what the baby looks like. My dd is very blonde. Piercing her ears would make her look chavvy - I know this because she had some plastic clip-on ones and she looked like a tramp. It doesn't suit her. I have seen children it does suit but never a baby. If you want to pierce your child's ears then go ahead but you can't expect everyone to think it's a good idea. Crying out racism on a forum where no-one knows what you look like seems a bit odd to me.

Cry racism if you want. Piercing infants is not a normal practise amongst non-chav parents in the UK. I am really bored of pandering to people that find it acceptable to cry racism at anything that doesn't fit into their realm of beliefs.

PP. I disagree. I think it's reasonable for people to take offense when you imply that UK culture is somehow 'superior' and more enlightened than cultures who have practices that you don't understand or agree with. That is how I read what you said - it came across that way to me.

You also said;

'frankly I'm offended and pretty fed up that I am not allowed to celebrate my own culture'

That, together with the 'race card' sentiment makes me feel uncomfortable when I hear it because it reminds me of some of the sentiment that I have read in BNP literature, along the lines of 'why should we feel like strangers in our own country?' which underpins a general intolerance for those who don't think like or are different from oneself. In addition, there are many people of many cultures who consider themselves 'English'.

I'm not trying to insult you or anyone else. I'm explaining how I feel about some of the language that people use. Racism is so often implicit and insidious in its negative impact on communities.

'pandering to' - yep I've heard that one too

Nobody has actually said it's racist to disagree with ear piercing. But some of the language used certainly sounds it to me.

I hate to state the obvious but wherever you were born, whatever your beliefs, you are in the UK....and so on infinitum....I am boring myself. I am off for a lovely glass of wine.

Actually the chav comments offend me too

So a 'white' person can't celebrate their culture without being a member of the BNP? I've heard it all now.

What has being white to do with it??

You obviously haven't read my post properly.

Thanks electra

I'm white (pretty much) and what I feel about the latter part of this thread is this:

The OP scenario has been thrown out of the window as soon as someone mentioned the words 'their culture'. Chavvy up until then and the soon as culture was mentioned it was considered abuse.

When that is mentioned, those that take offence are accused of playing the 'race card'.

Well I'm white and I find it hugely offensive that you tell me about the pitfalls of 'my culture' (ie that of my mum) and then tell me how I should feel about about your comments.

That's what makes it racist.

Race card - my arse.

I find it fucking offensive to have my mother be accused of abuse (worst case) and then told how I should feel.

Yet it is you that feels so offended. My oh my.

My mother used to whack me with a slipper, drive around with my brother & I unrestrained in the boot of an estate car & smoke whilst sharing confined spaces with us (all three simultaneously on long, stressful journeys actually ).

No, she wasn't 'abusive'.

But these are all things that wouldn't be seen as good parenting practice today.

It's possible to acknowledge that cultural practices evolve, without that being tantamount to an accusation of abuse against someone who adhered to them in the past.

Saying that ear-piercing of tiny children, to young to give consent, is repellent, does not = accusing anyone who's ever done it is an abuser.

electra you are really talking utter nonsense now.

The OP stated that it was common in Italian culture. I took no offense at that and that is my nationality.

Many people are going to strongly disagree with using cultural traditions to defend punching holes in a babies ears. Some people feel it is very very wrong to do so and it really has nothing whatsoever to do with racism. It has everything to do with the rights of the non-verbal infant.

Like I said before a girl in my class lost her earlobe due to an impetigic infection setting in after piercing as an infant. Yes that can happen and it's unlucky but SHE HAD NO SAY. For me this is the crux of the argument against piercing babies.

Reread from 16.06 posts and then tell me that waht I have written is racist.