To tell the travellers...

[Starbuck999]

By my parents house to please fuck off?

Story is, my parents and their neighbours all clubbed together to buy a lovely piece of land that their terrace of houses over looks. None of them are rich and it was a large buy for them all but they all keep is beautifully and it is a lovely view for them all to enjoy, it's only a small patch of land, not what one could consider to be a field even. i think they have (had) plans to make it a play area for all the local children, or a sports field or something similar.

4 weeks ago, overnight, a few caravans appeared. Of course the residents went to speak to them to say it was private land (which they already knew as there are huge "private" signs all round it and they actually smashed down a large section of the fencing to drive their caravans in.) But the travellers refused to budge. They were very matter of fact and reasonably polite about the fact that they would not be moving and they knew the residents couldnt do anything to make them move right away. Lovely.

Now, whilst I fully appreciate anyone's right to live how they want, surely it should not be at the expense of others. It must be wonderful to live such a free life, moving from place to place if that is what you choose, but how can you not expect to pay? Caravans sites cost say £25 a night, they should be paying to stay in one, or buy their own land and live there.

The field is now horrendous. More and more caravans have been moved in, I'd say there's no about 20. There are huge piles of broken up crates, broken buggies, televisions etc and massive piles of general hosehold rubbish and food waste in black bags that have been split open by foxes I presume all round the edge of the land. It's starting to look like a landfill site!

I don't have the full details but basically the residents have been told nothing can be done to get rid of them right away, it will take time through the courts. Then they will be moved on. That's all that will happen. Now If I parked my car somewhere illegal it would be clamped, towed and I'd have a hefty fine - why doesn't the same apply?

AIBU?

I would say any Traveller LookToWindward meets is likely to be arrested as a criminal, regardless of their behaviour.

'Scum is a polite way of describing them and their behaviour. There may be some law abiding travelling community out there, however I have yet to meet them.'

I think you need to be careful of your wording here looktowindward because it sounds to me like you;re tarring every traveller with the same brush.

You sound like a right charmer. Some travellers are criminals and some settled people are criminals.
There are lots of different travelling communities and just because they all might live in caravns doesn't mean they all share the same heritage.

Hitler murdered travellers in the Holocaust. Up until the 40 years ago the swiss government removed jenische children from their parents and gave them to nice normal settled families. Persecution is everywhere, don't try and say that travellers are not a minority.

It's quite simple.

I have had to deal with the results of these "travelling communities" on more occasions than I care to remember.

The bare facts are that they are always behave as I have described and having spoken to colleagues across the country my experience is not unusual.

If I label them as scum it is because their behaviour merits it.

If this is racism then so is me labelling the "well known" family in my area as scum.

Racism. Please. You have no idea.

I have to go but its been...

erm,

enlightening,

just not enlightening about Travellers.

I am so irritated that LTW is a Northerner. I was craftily trying to blame Southerners for the traveller hate in my earlier post.

I object very much to the use of the word scum with reference to any community living in the UK (or anywhere else) by someone who might conceivably be called to investigate some crime that happened within that community, domestic violence for instance, or child abuse, or a murder. You should be ashamed of your prejudice, not broadcasting it over the net. But since you think it is a defensible position, why not reveal your identity, sign your name to it?

Your claim of wanting to keep your identity as a police officer from interfering with your private life is actually a twisting of what your professional priorities should be. Surely you should aim to keep your personal biases from interfering with the impartial discharge of your duty to the citizens you are there to serve and protect?

I am not implying (that's the word you meant) that the Travellers are Roma. There is nevertheless a strong case to be made for their minority status. The way they 'choose' to live is the way they have lived since the dawn of time, for all anyone knows about them or their history. They have a distinct language, and a culture that is separate from that of the wider British or Irish culture. They call themselves Travellers, capital T, or Pavee. They are not "travellers", unless you are content to be called "police officer". If you are in any way representative of The Law, the attitude of the Traveller community to you and to what you represent does surprise me in the least.

'There is no difference between describing the "travellers" I have met as "scum" and the inhabitants of two houses in a particularly infamous estate on my patch as such.....Criminality is not a "minority community". Well, apparently, in your reprehensible view, it is. You don't like them, you think of them as criminals and potential criminals, and 'scum'.

The content of your posts is the words you use and the opinions you express using those words. The content in this case included the revelation that you are a relatively high ranking police officer. Do not try to hide behind any false distinction between content and words or terms used. It is dishonest.

i went into policing completely and totally unbiased against any one minority group and i hope i still am.

but i can only speak from experience as a special, and im really really sorry to say that looktowindward is simply stating fact as he/she sees it.

i have had colleagues go into travellers camps and be pelted with balloons filled with petrol. the last time i investigated a very expensive car theft it turned up in the local travellers camp. i hold no opionon one way or the other, i am just stating the facts. i am sure there are some lovely law abiding travellers out there, but i have yet to meet them. i would like to for their own sake.

Math, what unbridled claptrap.

Do you really beleive this politically correct bilge?

Peopel can live how, where and when they like of course they can. The proviso is of course aslong as it doesn't impact upon other people or involve thieving and controlling what belongs to other people and paying thier way like everyone else for use of utilities.

The police don't get on with travellers and have a very poor relationship with them. It is hardly news that the police do a poor job when it comes to a wide variety of minority groups, is it?

Math is arguing from an ivory tower, LWT from experience. I know who I believe.

If I find that a Romani / Irish / Travellers with a capital "T" / Martian / whatever community sets up in my patch lawfully, with out trespassing or causing criminal damage and that there is not a corresponding leap in reports of theft and criminal damage then I will apologise and withdraw every post I have made on the subject.

But given past experience I'm pretty certain this won't happen.

And FWIW, the only basis on which I discriminate is if you break the law. As long as you don't do that then I don't care what language you speak, what the colour of your skin is or what your religion may be.

However I do feel a pang of "here we ago again" when I discover a "community" has landed as I know its going to ruin my figures...

Why should anyone have to reveal his/her RL identity just because you don't agree with his/her views?

How odd.

we have some envoys come in from the travelling community to our training along with other minority groups, from transgender groups and so on. as a regular officer i do hope i will be enlightened enough to treat everyone on merit. but i suppose its easy to become quite cynical when you deal with the darker side of society day in day out.

VIAT, well yes it would seem it is easy to become cynical. That is why the police in this country have a terrible reputation and a series of travesties of justice behind them against minority groups.

People have become cynical about the police as a consequence of their recent historical behaviour. But perhaps I shouldn't tar all the police with the same brush. Perhaps you are not the kind of person who discriminates against the Irish and black people at all, even though you are a police officer.

How bizarre Laketowindward, there are many private and lawful sites in the UK. Where are you based?

It seems like many of you are grouping all Travellers as one. In reality there are many distinct groups and cultures, and if a senior officer is unaware of that, then that is very worrying.

What exactly was the bilge you were referring to? That a police officer shouldn't call citizens scum? Or the fact that the Travellers are a distinct ethnic group?

We all have an impact, a footprint, if you will. If you drive a car you are impacting other people. If you use electricity you are impacting other people. If you buy cheap coffee from the tropics you are impacting other people. Or choosing cheap clothes made in China or some sweatshop somewhere in Bangladesh. Granted, you're not making the highly visible mess that the Travellers make, but there are children going hungry somewhere because of your cheap coffee, and vast swathes of China being destroyed by the factories that produce those cheap shoes and bags and all the other stuff all over every shop.

can i just say that i have encountered way way way more racism and prejudice on bloody facebook and forums just like this than i have ever encountered in the police service.

Distinct Ethnic Group

My
Arse

Spare me. Spare us all.