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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell the travellers...

380 replies

Starbuck999 · 30/08/2010 11:17

By my parents house to please fuck off?

Story is, my parents and their neighbours all clubbed together to buy a lovely piece of land that their terrace of houses over looks. None of them are rich and it was a large buy for them all but they all keep is beautifully and it is a lovely view for them all to enjoy, it's only a small patch of land, not what one could consider to be a field even. i think they have (had) plans to make it a play area for all the local children, or a sports field or something similar.

4 weeks ago, overnight, a few caravans appeared. Of course the residents went to speak to them to say it was private land (which they already knew as there are huge "private" signs all round it and they actually smashed down a large section of the fencing to drive their caravans in.) But the travellers refused to budge. They were very matter of fact and reasonably polite about the fact that they would not be moving and they knew the residents couldnt do anything to make them move right away. Lovely.

Now, whilst I fully appreciate anyone's right to live how they want, surely it should not be at the expense of others. It must be wonderful to live such a free life, moving from place to place if that is what you choose, but how can you not expect to pay? Caravans sites cost say £25 a night, they should be paying to stay in one, or buy their own land and live there.

The field is now horrendous. More and more caravans have been moved in, I'd say there's no about 20. There are huge piles of broken up crates, broken buggies, televisions etc and massive piles of general hosehold rubbish and food waste in black bags that have been split open by foxes I presume all round the edge of the land. It's starting to look like a landfill site!

I don't have the full details but basically the residents have been told nothing can be done to get rid of them right away, it will take time through the courts. Then they will be moved on. That's all that will happen. Now If I parked my car somewhere illegal it would be clamped, towed and I'd have a hefty fine - why doesn't the same apply?

AIBU?

OP posts:
moondog · 30/08/2010 22:56

Onename, however I must say I do look forward to being educated on the complex racial and sociolinguistic make-up of the 'travelling community'

Fire away.

MillyR · 30/08/2010 22:56

It is just as well that people writing on facebook don't have a variety of legal powers at their disposal then. Unlike the police, who can arrest and detain people, and are as a consequence expected to display a higher level of ethical behaviour.

baitedbreath · 30/08/2010 22:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

OneNameChange · 30/08/2010 22:57

Some people here seem very ill educated.

Irish travellers/Romani travellers are both distinct ethnic groups under British law.

OneNameChange · 30/08/2010 22:58

I don't understand moondog, what exactly are you asking me?

moondog · 30/08/2010 22:59

Ah, so a law makes it all valid does it?

What law would that be then?

moondog · 30/08/2010 23:00

'It seems like many of you are grouping all Travellers as one. In reality there are many distinct groups and cultures.'

You said it One, so I'm hoping you can elaborate.

BeerTricksPotter · 30/08/2010 23:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

expatinscotland · 30/08/2010 23:01

The same law that is allowing people to trespass on private property, trash it and refuse to leave?

I don't see any other ethnic group being allowed that privilege. I'm non-white! I want to go and live for free, not pay on someone's land! Would save us a mint and we wouldn't have to deal with these shite neighbours. I'll even clean up after myself!

MillyR · 30/08/2010 23:02

It is the Race Relations Act, among others. Scottish travellers are also a discrete ethnic group, and considered to be separate to Irish travellers and Scottish non-travellers.

moondog · 30/08/2010 23:05

So there is a subgroup endorsed by (breathy reverentialwhisper) of non travelling Scottish travellers?

Do they also have 'community leaders' amnd run 'discrimination awareness workshops'?

OneNameChange · 30/08/2010 23:06

Well obviously there are Irish travellers, Romany Gypsies, the Jenische people...there are Scottish travellers.
There are also other groups, but they aren't really within this country.

The Pavee (irish travellers or 'tinkers') have their own language, differing to the language of Romani people or Jenische people (whose languae is similar to German).

The Jenische have a vast and rich heritage and strict laws and rules.

Smile
expatinscotland · 30/08/2010 23:06

Yes, so, why then are some people being allowed to trespass on someone else's land, vandalise it and remain there as long as they want for free and leaving the land in a state of disrepair the owner then has to clean up?

Why do Starbuck's parents have to put up with this?

Because it sounds like, 'Oh, I don't like it that I can't live how I want, so instead of finding a way to change it legitimately, I'll just go do whatever the hell I want.'

MillyR · 30/08/2010 23:07

I don't understand what you are saying moondog. Scottish travellers are, in law, a discrete ethnic group. That is due to their distinct ethnic history over the last 200 years. It has nothing to do with whether or not they currently live in a house.

mathanxiety · 30/08/2010 23:08

"And FWIW, the only basis on which I discriminate is if you break the law." Apparently, by your own admission, this is not the case. When you call people from a certain group 'scum' and think of them and describe them in terms of their 'criminality', then you are discriminating.

"Romani / Irish / Travellers with a capital "T" / Martian / whatever community " -- pure ignorance there; sneering is an undesirable skill for a police officer, and you seem to have honed it well.

I grew up in Ireland, the motherland of the Travellers, in a suburb of Dublin where there was a very large Traveller encampment for most of my childhood. So I have seen the mess, and sadly I have also seen the prejudice. The prejudice upsets me more. It seems they are the only minority group it that you can still get away with demonising as they have been demonised on this thread.

OneNameChange · 30/08/2010 23:08

Yes, it's wrong expat. But not every Traveller is a criminal.

BeerTricksPotter · 30/08/2010 23:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scrappydappydoo · 30/08/2010 23:10

I am choosing to bypass all most of this bunfight thread but I would like to know what the ops parents CAN do irrespective of who they are and what community they come from - surely some practical advice would be more useful than a slanging match?
OK so there aren't many permanent sites - thats not going to suddenly change for ops parents so getting angry at the system is not a practical solution for them so what choices/options have they got? (that question is mostly aimed at kinders at al btw)

LookToWindward · 30/08/2010 23:11

Having read back through my posts I think I need to post again.

As an apology and a correction - I'm sure that not all "travelling communities" are as I've described - unfortunately due to the nature of my job I don't generally get to hear about the good ones.

However I will say that if the group gain access to a site through trespass and involving criminal damage then you're pretty much fucked and all I've said stands.

Perhaps that clarification will help?

I do have a low opinion of most "travellers". Sorry but I do. That comes from years of experience. The same way that if you drink in a certain pub in a certain estate I'm going to have a pretty low opinion of you. That doesn't mean I'm going to treat you any differently mind you.

Anyhow, I'm going to bed. I've had a too much wine and should know better than to come on here half cut.

expatinscotland · 30/08/2010 23:13

Suspicious?

People buy land aruond them all the time, because yes, they want to dictate how it's used.

For example, the council owned a small strip of land in front of a crescent of houses where we used to live.

The homeowners there bought it so their view to the sea would never be blocked by a road or any other wee shite the council might decide to put there.

What's so suspicious about that?

If I could have my way I'd live a million miles from any fucker because I'm sick of other people.

moondog · 30/08/2010 23:13

They aren't languages One, they are dialects reflecting the communities/countries with which they are loosely allied.

I'm all for people doing their own thing (being a speaker of a mimority language myself and a very proud one at that). Just do it and leave out the thieving and the trashing and the bleating about 'rights'.

expatinscotland · 30/08/2010 23:14

People often club together to buy land to keep it from being developed, too.

So other people can enjoy using it rather than a select few who can afford houses there.

moondog · 30/08/2010 23:15

Beer, that's priceless.
So it's suspicious for peopel to want to control land aorund them but not suspicious for a group of criminals to take it over.

mathanxiety · 30/08/2010 23:15

"Yes, so, why then are some people being allowed to trespass on someone else's land, vandalise it and remain there as long as they want for free and leaving the land in a state of disrepair the owner then has to clean up?

Why do Starbuck's parents have to put up with this?"

Because the law lets them. The law is the law is the law. Trespass law is older than the hills and there are common law concepts there that have not developed much over the centuries. If the Travellers have been coming and going on this patch of land for decades or even for years before the current owners bought it, they may be perfectly entitled to continue to do so. You are allowed to do exactly as they do.

LookToWindward · 30/08/2010 23:16

"The only reason I can see is that you want to dictate who uses it and for what purpose."

Well isn't that the point?

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