to hide the feminism topic?

[CerealOffender]

the thread titles are all so serious and worthy and make me feel frivolous and unsisterly.

seeker that's spot on.

I think it's unfortunate that people feel they're not welcome on the Feminism board if they disagree with the louder voices.

If I disagree I tend to just carry on saying so although, as with other topics, if I find myself getting too squashed, I tend to say my piece and then not post unless I'm shaking with fury (which I was on a thread in "Chat" the other day).

I am of the thinking of BoF, Janitor and Custardo that it is not so black and white.

I class myself as a humanist which acknowledges the plight of both sexes.

I was deeply troubled to have defended that there are many deep issues for men as for women and was accused of being a woman hater. I shrugged and don't go there.

That is not a lack of acknowledgement that there are interesting and intelligent debates held there. Some of the threads do make me think an uncharacteristic 'FFS' though. There is a lot of 'aggression' on the topic and people being told to get lost or fuck off for their opinions is ironically opressive. And I don't like to see people being told they are victims whther they like/realise it or not.

seeker, I regularly express views that differentiate me from a doormat, I happily identify as a feminist, and I like that the radfem movement exists. But I do find tolerance of views that differ from the current orthodoxy are rarely tolerated in the MN Feminism topic. Questioning the character of the topic does not amount to questioning feminism itself.

"And I don't like to see people being told they are victims whther they like/realise it or not."

I don't like the word "victim" very much. But there is a very big issue here. People often are "victims" without realizing - and even collude with their "victimization". One of the central pillars of feminism has always been consciousness raising.

Yes and as someone who has had an emotionally abusive upbringing and relationship, I have valued and appreciated the support on relationships, but it is more far reaching than that seeker. There is an implication often that we make so many few choices that are not dominated by patriachy.
I actually come away from the feminism topic on lurking feeling disempowered and a 'victim'. That is a fact. No one can tell me it is wrong.
The cries at times over some issues about 'do you realise this is about domination?' over some issues that are, quite frankly, just what they are.
However, I apologise, I am not engaging further for personal reasons.

I didn't even realise there was a feminist section.. I hang out in AIBU and the pregnancy bit.

I went through several threads though yesterday because of this thread and have to say I got the feeling anyone who disagreed with anything said was jumped on for being "full of bollox" and essentially setting back the sisterhood.

I have been slated quite badly on here before because of a comment I made on a non-feminist issue (at least I didn't see it as a feminist issue, I saw it as common sense issue) so I think I will avoid the topic because I don't troll the internet looking for a fight.

I don't think feminism means "believing exactly what other every feminst believes or you aren't in the club" I think it means knowing women are intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions about themselves, their lives and their bodies. I consider my self a feminist.

Seeker, I like you a lot.

I am yet to understand what people think the 'orthodoxy' line is. I can't think of one position that isn't disagreed with by at least one prolific poster. There are prolific, passionate SAHMs and WOHMs both of whom will argue theirs is the more feminist position. Likewise anti-porn and pro, the transexual debate and general discussions about tone and inclusiveness.

I mean hide it, fine, but this "only one acceptable position" bollocks, it's bollocks.

You can't deny the experiences of women. If they say they find it off putting to be told to bugger off they do. They aren't lying. And now seeker you are depressed at the fact that they've dared to voice their pissed off ness? What should they do - tip their caps and admit their own failure?

I want StewieGriffinsMom to be my mom

SGM that was about seekers comments not yours.

I want to draw attention to you as a non shouter downer. most women there are like you in response.

I think the shouting down is not done by a lot of women - only a small number but they tend to be quite enthusiastic about it so it feels like more.

I feel listened to now - not agreed with much (a little bit!) but that's not the idea anyway.

I think the crap women put up with is too much to "hide" although it is a bit frustrating sometimes.

No,I am not depresssed because people expressed their pissed off-ness. If they are being treated rudely on other threads then that is very wrong, and they should challenge the rudeness. I personally haven't seen it, but idf that's people's experience then of course it must be there. I am depressed because nothing appears to have changed. When I was 20 there were real life debates where where women said that they weren't feminists because of all the reasons I outlined - the only difference 30 years later is that the debates happen on line as well. Oh, and that it now seems to be possible to call yourself a feminist without believing in many of the basic tenets of feminism.Now, that's depressing!

I identify as a feminist, but steer clear of the feminist topic because it seems to me to be all about certain posters trying to enforce their own version of feminist orthodoxy, and it all gets a bit 'I am considerably more feminist than yow'.

I find that both dull and counter-productive.

'Feminism is not one voice. It should be a plethora of voices debating the issues and working [in their own ways] towards a better life for us all: be that anti-prostitution work, the rights of transgendered people, feminism in academia, rape, domestic violence, education, equal pay, abortion, childcare, access to healthcare etc.

Feminism is a political movement. No one should be in complete agreement all the time. The only thing that we should agree on is that men and women are equal partners. Everything else: every policy, law, campaign, belief should be open to question and debate.'

I agree with everything you say here SGM.
But I also sometimes feel I'm involved in a rewrite of Animal Farm.

'To quote Rebecca West "I am not entirely sure what a feminist is. I only know that I am accused of being one when I express views that differentiate me from a doormat" '

I don't want anyone to wipe their boots on me, male or female, and I've never accepted it.
Intelligent debate yes. Being told what to think and that I'm an anti-feminist if I don't agree with you, no.

Yeah, you're right, SGM. To be fair, I have gleaned a lot of interesting info from lurking over there.

But why do people feel that they have to accept that they have been shouted down? Why not come back and shout louder?

Thought I'd started a thread in my sleep for a minute.....

Yanbu...I posted on a couple of their threads. I found them rude, pompous, and controlling.

If you don't agree with them you're a troll or a derailer, which is fair enough, they're entitled to their opinion. I think they're very bored, out of touch and jealous. They look for problems that aren't there because they've got nothing else to do. Feminism has had it's day...we don't need it anymore (if we ever did?).....and that's what they can't accept.