to hide the feminism topic?

[CerealOffender]

the thread titles are all so serious and worthy and make me feel frivolous and unsisterly.

ditto what, msrisotto? That's how you divide up your household chores?

yeah, it wasn't something I struggled with. I don't have kids (yet) though so didn't relate to a lot of the OP so didn't have anything to say.

kittywise - so you haven't hidden the topic then? .

You can come and post and say that you find the title of that thread strange if you want to....

I consider myself to be a regular poster on the feminist section. Here are some things that I have said on the feminist section:

I wear makeup, and I wear floral minidresses. I also wear low cut tops to work.

I am not an academic feminist and have only read a few of the more accessible feminist books - Female chauvinist pigs and that kind of thing.

I let my 9 year old DD watch various pop videos and she has lots of pink stuff.

I think that SAHM and caring in general is work and a feminist statement.

No regular feminist poster has ever had a go at me for saying any of these things although other posters have, yet issues similar to this are the kind of things being mentioned on this thread as being 'against the party line.' I really don't think there is a party line - people from all over MN are coming in and out of the feminist section and commenting. People seem to assume that if someone disagrees with them on the feminist section then the person disagreeing is one of the regulars. I think a lot of the disagreements are between 2 people, neither of whom are regulars. Both walk away annoyed and blame the feminism section!

The two main things that I think matter here are:

1. It is odd that people on this thread think of themselves as the prospective converts and the regular posters as feminists. The regulars are in general new to feminism and keen to learn. They are no more responsible for converting any of you that you are responsible for converting them to feminism.

1. The floods of tears, feminists upset me argument. The regulars are also real people who get upset; I am sure some of you have been upset. I am sure that some of them get very upset that people on here are telling them to shut about their rape experiences because people on MN don't even want to see the thread title.

As for the strident thing, I haven't looked at the asserting in a relationship thread, but I can't see the issue with the title. Assertion is not about aggression, so talking to your partner about the feelings of both of you is assertive. Where is the problem in that?

kittywise I also felt a bit about that thread title, but I haven't read the thread yet so maybe once I have I'll understand what it's all about.

However, on first glance it did make me think 'what on earth kind of relationship has the OP got that she needs to 'assert her feminist principles'?' Made me think of some poor man with a very firm thumb print on his head, with a pinny on. Ridiculous clearly, but the principle is that the thread title was a turn off.

I just think

well hide it then

The thread [assert feminist principles] is probably one that lots of mothers would be interested in!

It's about how childcare/chores etc are shared.

I find thinking about that interesting because, personally (if I really think about it, subconsciously), a lot of the reason that I decided to go part time when I had DS was so that I could "keep house".

I have not problem with others choices SAHM/WAHM/WOHM but I am interested in how my upbringing/society has lead to my decisions.

I would love for their to be more women in politics and on boards of companies as I think it would improve society for everyone - women and men. I suspect that some women who could achieve this (like me - maybe ) don't "assert their feminist principles" and step back from career.

Who cut's the DCs nails?

If all this is booooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrring to you then you're better off not clicking on that thread.

there not their

Crazycatlady the reason that feminism seeks equality but pushes the agenda of women is that we are not yet equal to men in every sense. Until we are, feminism will have to push the needs of women. I would equate it to the civil rights movement in the USA pushing the agenda of black people. Why would they need to push the agenda of while people who already held all the power?

Wow, this thread has come on since this morning! Love it. I've only posted once on the feminist topic (thanking someone for a book ref - feeble). Reading the last 14 pages has encouraged me to come out of lurkers' corner.

I don't like the focus on women being oppressed by the patriarchy, which is totally opposed to my life experience, and this insistance that we are all (still) victims of bastard men.

Leglislation is in place to give women equality in all areas (and thanks to all the PEOPLE who worked for that). Unfortunately legislation doesn't work on those men who want to rape and abuse in the same way that having laws about for example burglary don't work 100%.

To me the way forward is changing WOMEN's attitudes. Stop harping on about how it is MEN that stop us from achieving out goals.

Does it help to know that there's liberal feminism (asserts the equality of men and women through political and legal reform) and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism radical feminism] (aims to challenge and to overthrow patriarchy by opposing standard gender roles and the male oppression of women, and calls for a radical reordering of society).

I often find myself with some of the radical feminism - but really it's because I am so used to thinking the way I do - it's like the ultimate out of the box thinking.

I think that the debates can appear personal when often someone is just stating their passionate position.

Another eye opener is why the word "choice" sets alarm bells ringing - basically it's because lots of people think that
choice is a weak argument in a world where women are not equal to men.

This doesn't mean that I personally judge others for their choices through some feminst lens(*).

(*) disclaimer of course we all judge each other all the time for lots of reasons

When it gets a bit SHOUTY - I remember the postion of deep silence women are coming from.

feminism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_feminism

radical feminism

gah

liberal feminism

radical feminism

i think i should probably hide it aswell. i thought i was normal, average, non extremist about anything-in-particular. i find most of the extremist feminist views hard to comprehend. i think they think i am oppressed, but i don't feel it. i find it all a bit hard to understand.
they come back with things like, do you live in the 50's and don't you want to vote. and i'm like of course i do, what a strange thing to say. i just find it all wierd.

Thanks for answering my question chipmonkey. I can understand that the US civil rights/black analogy worked for feminism in the early days when women were not able to do things that men could, e.g. own property, vote etc

However I don't see that viewpoint as relevant in the world we live in today (in the UK - obv different in some cultures, but I can't comment on whether these women feel 'oppressed'). Women here can do all the things men can, should they want to. I don't think it's necessarily as easy for men - their roles are pretty rigid, e.g. a stay at home dad or a man who wants to be a nurse could well face ridicule. Remember the male nurse jibes in Meet the Parents, and the Manny jokes in Friends?

That is why I don't find it easy to identify with the 'pushing the agenda of women only' brand of feminism.

Thanks for those links tabouleh. Liberal feminism seems on first look fairly reasonable. Radical feminism, to me, seems like madness and verging on veiled man hating. Anyway, I don't want to offend, and it seems from reading those links that there are many of the radical persuasion in the MN feminist forum, and that's why I'll probably stay clear.

Long, sorry...

what are you referring to when you say "reducing people to a mere 'symbol' of a significant event in their life"?

I have never seen wholesale slating of men! Don't know what you're on about there, maybe skating close to it by saying that mostly, rapists are men and men need to be more active in fixing this.

Oh I'm a liberal and post in feminism. It's really interesting. There are radical feminists there too and interesting discussion to be had. It does get a bit 'Judean Peoples Popular Front' sometimes but that's quite good fun.

Just wade in there and get on with it.