to think that the catholic church are bloody immoral and need to be made answerable to the shit they seem to get away with?

[cupcakesandbunting]

I am referring to this; www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11061296

and yes, I am totally aware that the police and government are to blame too but we expect governments and to an extent police, to be corrupt.

I am saying this as a RC too. I am fucking shocked at the amount of revolting crap that the church seem to get away with. Covering up paedophiles/abusers, bombers and who knows what else.

Why are they never made accountable?

Snobear4000;

Not sure if you saw my post on the "going back in time thread" (aibu)....it was in reply to your post wishing I'd never been born and making vile comments about my parents sex life.

You are a real charmer.

snobear I am a lapsed Catholic and capable of being highly critical of the church and a good part of its hierarchy but I find the shouting about the RCC re condoms in Africa a very simplistic shout. Apparently in countries where the RCC is not influential aid orgs can't get men to wear the bloody things any way. It's not just about the RCC in Africa it's about misogyny and chauvinism and men behaving like eejits with their brains in their pants as they are liable to do all over the world!

One of the most effective ways to help people in the developing world is to educate women.

But most of the west would rather plunder their resources in league with their leaders or sell them cars, petrol, mobile phones, trainers, football shirts, formula milk etc etc etc.

It ain't just the RCC who can act like total bastards. Just check out the oil companies. And some would say most of the Aid industry too. A lot of aid ends up in a few pockets and does little good.

Noellefielding -- well said. So much of it is about misogyny and chauvinism, and exploitation and greed. And in the exploitation and greed part, we are nearly all complicit to some extent.

snobear4000
Here is another coverup of peodophiles you might be interested in
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/3733215.stm
In northern towns in Lancashire and yorkshire Pakistani Muslims are grooming young white girls for sex,this is a big problem that people dare not speak out about
I will probably be accused of racism for bringing this up but I too think this is disgusting and needs talking about

"
It ain't just the RCC who can act like total bastards. Just check out the oil companies. And some would say most of the Aid industry too. A lot of aid ends up in a few pockets and does little good.|

Of course it isn't. But the Catholic Church is designed to be and proclaims itself to be a force for good. Oil companies are there solely to make a profit.

People don't look to oil companies for moral guidance. Or believe that they will go to hell if they don't follow teir teaching.

If you've ever bought oil or petroleum from some place where repression and corruption is the norm, and where the profits from the oil industry find their way into the pockets of maybe 2% of the richest people while the poor remain utterly poor, how are you contributing to the miserable status quo? Should we all listen to the churches who preach that greed and exploitation of the poor is evil? Or should we dismiss the message because some of the messengers are flawed?

Of course the RCC has many things which are shameful, utterly shameful in its history. But it is an organisation that is effectively 2000 years old, its hierarchies and problems have built up over centuries. It is slow to change and it may not change enough to survive, I'll give you that. There is absolutely no no no defence that can be made for the church's failure to protect the vulnerable whether it's the Jewish population of Rome during the war, or children in the care of Religious men and women. Or the cover-ups.

What I would argue though is a less hysterical view. Only because history if seen hysterically just looks like nonsense.

If you read the history of the church and of Xianity you see how the church's present problems have grown out of ancient ones. The history of the church has been at times defined by its relationship to human sexuality and the repression of that.

I think that centuries of sending very young men and women into often cruel and insensitive celibate institutions before they could make an informed choice (my great aunt started her novitiate ridiculously young, 15 or 16 maybe?) I think the church's hysteria and repression of normal sexuality in its members partly caused the destructiveness of this sexually deviant and criminal history. Obviously paedophiles have always been attracted to work with special access to kids - can't blame the church for how clever paedophiles are and how manipulative. But in being a potential paedophile making institution, the church was very wrong.

But an organisation run by celibate men is not going to reform itself sexually is it? It's too difficult for them to be rational on the subject.

I was taught by nuns who had all committed to the religious life too early to know what they were doing imho. They could be godawful godforsaken evil heartless Beatches. But some were oasis of love and kindness. Go figure. Same goes for many priests. There are priests I've met all over the world who live among some of the poorest people of the world and not just for evangelism but for solidarity. I can't throw the whole church out with the bath water. It is a hulking great wounded ancient beast which will, I hope, be healed over time.

Sandybumcrack...

What you posted there is truly awful, and I don't disagree with you at all. I have no problem with pointing out some of the vile things that many Muslim communities do, particularly the arranged marriages (with grown men marrying 12yo cousins sometimes), honour killings, and the grooming thing in Bradford, to name but a few. Horrendous.

Where certain people in a community are guilty of horrible crimes, they should be punished, and the leaders of their community should be rallying against the criminal or immoral behaviour.

When the leaders of the community (ie: Priests, Vicars or Clerics) are themselves the perpetrators of the crimes, you really have a problem. So, back to the RCs!

Oh Daftpunk, don't be upset. I only said I wished you had never been born.

snobear you speak for many

No, that wasn't all you said, you made references to my parents and oral sex.

I couldn't care less what you say about me, you're just a random nobody...but if you mention my parents again in the disgusting manner in which you are capable of...I'll report you.

& as for you wishing I'd never been born, if an anonymous poster on the internet stirs such extreme feelings in you...it's time to step away from the computer...

pmsl

I've reported your post.

Don't waste your time talking to me again, you'll get no reply.

How the hell can you be outraged DP considering the things you come out with about whole sections of society

Reported by a racist?

A badge of honour. Thanks :)

She has reported me in the past too I was delighted although not sure what her objection was!Iirc I said I doubted she would dare spout her crap in public and she got a bit hot under the collar

Snobear you are obviously never going to see anything remotely connected to the Catholic church in anything less than a satanic light, but that is your choice! I'm interested to know if there there any organisations that do work for the cause of good in your opinion or is everything in the world corrupt and evil?!

The RC guidelines on contraception state purely and simply that sex should not be performed outside of marriage, and if these were followed some of the problems you mention might be less prevalent. You are probably saying that just isn't going to happen, but the whole point of being a christian is to constantly try to live up to the ideal of being Christlike. The church is not going to compromise on its message in that respect. If people individually want to compromise that's up to them, but it is not up to the church to tell them how they should behave when they compromise.The church does not say don't use condoms, it says don't have sex outside marriage, end of issue!

Therefore information on contraception is just not relevant for the church to be teaching, it's the job of other, secular organisations.

Noellefielding your last post makes a lot of sense. I see the current increase in ordaining more Permanent deacons to be a real step forward in terms of the problems you mention.

Snobear4000

The leaders of the pakistani muslim community does know of this problem as do the whole community
They do not speak out because speaking out against these vile crimes is seen as unislamic and I think a whole community covering is quite shocking and it shows the respect or lack of it these people have for others

And am still interested to know what it is people want from the Catholic Church? Will it be permissable to be Catholic once all of the priests etc who have committed crimes have been brought to justice? The Catholic Church is the people of the Church, and I think I can speak for the vast majority of them in saying that is exactly what we want.

Snobear4000 - I reported your post too, DP's political and moral opinions are nothing I can even remotely relate too but your post was horrible, offensive and a personal attack, regardless of what posters have said on previous topics you cannot think its acceptable to spout nonsense about a posters parents.

Have to agree with Wigglesrock. Any sort of personal attack is just not relevant if we're trying to have an adult discussion about this, particularly when it's so offensive...