Can I just tell you a story and you advise?

[percysnose]

PILs staying with us. They are very passive aggressive, the father much worse. They always take one of the kids out for hours at a time alone. But we don't see much of them, so although the kids are fine with them, when we're there, the kids are not fine with them on their own. But PILs get stroppy if not allowed alone time with the kids.

On the first day, they take out dd1 (4 years old) all day long. dd1 is a bit miserable when she comes home and this morning begs me to come to the park with them and her. She begs for so long in front of them and says dh going too isn't enough so it ends up with me and dh taking dd1 to the park at about 11am just to stop her crying about it, while they wait at home with dd2 (1 year old) who's sleeping. We slip out quite quietly - MIL is in the front room while we go out, though, and definitely seems to watch us walking past her to leave, and dh says he tells MIL to look after dd2.

We get back an hour and a half later, dd2 is in her cot crying. Maybe because she heard the door when we came in. PILs are not there!

They come in at 3.30pm. They are normal and friendly and chatty and don't say anything that would lead you to think they left their baby grandchild alone in a house. I told dh not to mention it to them. Both dh and me are gobsmacked and terrified. dh says they must have known and his dad must have said oh come on they'll be back soon lets go. But when they got in they said 'did you manage to go out? it's a lovely day today'. So they didn't know! But how could they not have known? They knew dd2 was asleep when they left. Wouldn't you call upstairs to make sure we were there? Or walk round the house? Or something?

Anyway because we didn't mention it we can never mention it now. But I am now terrified of leaving them to babysit. Whether it's on purpose or a mistake, this is really important. What would you have done?

Both are awful Clam, but it may make it clearer whether the in-laws deliberately left the house believing the op was still inside it.

It is all rather odd though, if they did go out genuinely believing the op as still inside then surely they would have said bye / what time they'd be back?

I know, ben, the question was raised to prove intent, but it set me thinking. Anyway, either way they can argue their way out of it.

1. they left it unlocked because they thought the OP was in (but still odd for not saying goodbye)
2. they locked it because they thought everyone, including the baby, had gone to the park. (also odd because they would surely have noticed a family of four leaving the house, presumably with buggy/sling/hats/changing bags/whatever.

There's no excusing this, whatever the explanation, but the OP and her DH really should have been more upfront in the first place. All it needed was for you to say, "sorry, DD is going through a clingy phase at the moment. How about we all go to the park once DD2 is awake, unless you'd prefer to babysit instead?"

I don't believe that people, even some slightly strange in-laws, think it's ok to leave a baby in the house, and it's very unlikely to have been deliberate. I have never ever heard of anyone doing that to teach the parents a lesson and think it's highly unlikely. I think it's much more likely that everyone thought something different, and DH when cornered, said he told them he was going out, but he may have called out 'see you then' and they didn't hear, or didn't register what that meant. I cannot believe that you didn't give them directions on how to look after the baby when they woke up (which they may well do, after an hour and a half), such as feeding, mobile if distressed, and therefore I don't think a proper hand-over was performed (by you and your husband) or registered (by them).

Nothing bad happened and you live and learn, but sometimes you just have to admit you stuffed up as a parent (as I did when my daughter went for a walk along three major roads aged 2 1/2). To deny the grandparents sole care on the basis is just awful for them, essentially they are being accused of child neglect without being able to defend themselves.

These are passive aggressive people, probably quite narcissistic - and it's not beyond them to have knowingly left the house pretending they didn't know you were out. This was probably a punishment to the OP, - for whatever narcissistic injury they felt at the time.

These kind of truths might be unpalatable and diificult to accept - but completely plausable.

You both sound petrified of your IL's to the extent that you will let them take an understandably distraught 4 year old out for the whole day. No person in their right mind leaves a baby without at least the scenario 'if she wakes....' or leaving your mobile number etc. Neither of you have the balls or spine to actually make some decisions regarding your own childrens welfare for fear of upsetting the IL's that you are so clearly terrified of.

Look, I am as non confrontational as they come, but in this scenario, I would be absolutely LIVID & everyone would know it.

You sound way too calm about this, OP. I'd be ripping heads off.

Well, maybe, different, but how's the conversation going to go?

OP: How come you went out and left the baby alone?
ILs: She wasn't alone. Weren't you in?
OP: er no, we went to the park.
ILs: Oh? Why didn't you tell us you'd gone?
OP: erm....... Didn't DH say?
ILs: No, at least not specifically. Anyway, I thought we were all going to go. How come you went without us?
OP: Erm......

One of the difficulties with confronting passive aggressive people is that they act all hurt and injured and guilt trip you. They might even stop talking and withdraw support. That's how crazy making they can be.

So you've got to be up for that if you take them on. Tricky.

They've got you snookered, whichever way you bring it up. Because the bottom line is that you left the house first, quietly slipping out without real reason (not waking the baby won't hold water when you've said there'd already been a hoohah with DD not wanting to go without you), and not properly making arrangements for them to babysit. Don't think you're going to be able to get away from that one. Because, ultimately, it was your responsibility.
Although that would still make it pretty shitty behaviour on their part too, if it was intentional. And I still think it was, actually, but maybe I'm a cynic.

I wouldn't want their type of 'support'.

I'm still of the opinion that they knew what they were doing and the OP and her DH sounds as though they are scared of them and will do anything to avoid a confrontation. Even if the OP and her DH were in the wrong, if you came back to find your baby had been left alone when you thought you had left it with GPs, any normal person would hit the roof. I hate confrontation and do anything to avoid it but not for something like this.

The MIL saw you go out, yet she later asked you if you'd managed to go out? Have I got that right?

Well, I can think of a few explanations.

1. MIL's memory is going.
2. Your PIL are playing some kind of psychological game
3. Your PIL made some kind of innocent mistake and she was trying to cover it up/push the blame on to you so that you'd still trust them to babysit. So they're a bit selfish, to put it lightly.
4. FIL is so domineering that MIL is incapable of telling him that they can't go down to the shops until you get back.

Any of the above attitudes/behaviour might also explain why your elder daughter is so unhappy to be left with them, too. I do find the fact that she was so apparently desperate to have her parents with her troubling

I'm sorry this happened to you OP.

I too find it hard to believe they didn't know you'd gone out and not taken dc2.

Could you tell us if the house was locked when you returned? This may help.

I do think you have to say something - and I hate confrontation but then again on the flip side of the coin do you want PIL to be able to say your bad parents for leaving dc2?

I'm on the fence with dd1 insisting you both went as I know dc's like this who find it really hard being with others as they're parents are really laid back and rules or not doing everything they want when they're out do ruin a day for them. I'm not making any accusations there just trying to see it from both POV.

Well I agree with ani and clam. All this who k about no one e re leaves a baby alone it's too awful et. Well nonsense, used to be a regular thing and they are of that generation.

I can really imagine this happening - basicaly because you were embarassed that dd1 didn't want to go with pil to park you decided to get away from an awkward situation where they might have pushed the issue and you would have seemed like a pushover mum for doing what your dd1 wanted ( were you thinking they wouldn't approve?) but in your haste you didn't really ask properly (again awkward cos they weren't good enough for dd1). But you shouldn't have done it like that and maybe lesson learned. But you have got to get to bottom of it - could you trust them again if you don't? I have a similarly non confrontational relationship with mil but have learned hard way to be clear about what I want - don't always get it but I let her know when she's mucked up. Eg leaving dd1 at six months alone in bath ( ALONE and not even in bath chair). She denied it, then admitted it, then said 'what's the fuss for - only left her for a few minutes'. What the feck? Sometimes embarrassment or awkwardness or whatever do not matter when your kids wellbeing is st stake. Grow a pair and talk about it openly - admit your mistake and hope they can do the same. All the best, I feel your nerves

OP: did your DH actually say "we are going out now, we are taking DD1 with us. DD2 is asleep in her cot, she'll wake up roughly at[time] so you are babysitting?" and did ILs acknowledge this?

I think if he didn't say this then they just assumed you'd taken both kids.

If your DH did this - proper handover then I agree with other posters you can't ever leave them in charge.....

OP - FFS why the hell don't you just ask your DH if he actually told them they were babysitting?!

If he did, then they left the baby on purpose which is IMO unforgiveable. If he didn't then it is qute obvious that they didn't know the baby was there. Problem solved!

Also what is your plan for the future if you won't discuss this with them. Never leaving your DC alone with them again? Or taking the chance of leaving them, but your PIL possibly thinking it is ok to leave children alone in the house?

The only way you can find out what happened is to ask them directly. All this second guessing is pointless.

You can't resolve an issue or move forward until you find out what actually happened.

Wow. I cannot imagine how this even happened.

Ask your DH to tell you exactly what he said to his Mum in terms of asking her to babysit. I'm sure the fault lies with him, although the whole thing is weird, quite honestly - leaving the house with saying goodbye, not actually ensuring a proper handover, here's how to handle her if she wakes, etc, etc.

I'm as non-confrontational as they come, but do not understand this sort of family dynamic at all. As others have said, you both seem scared of them. Why is your DH scared of his own parents?

I agree. All very odd. This couple seem to have their son, their DIL, and their grandchildren scared. Meanwhile, apparently they "get stroppy" if they're NOT left alone with the grandchildren. I might be being unreasonable here, but my children's grandparents have never demanded to have them without me. Sometimes I'm there, sometimes I'm not, and it's never been an issue.

How awful :( I think they did it to prove a point, which is frightening. I also think your dh isn't being truthful. I doubt he told them. He probably got so scared when you returned to find out what happened.... No one wants to be the blame for such an awful an dangerous situation. Thank goodness she's ok.

I think that's the only good thing in the situation star, that the baby is OK... this time.

Which is why it's so important for you to get to the bottom of what happened if you plan for your DC to have any kind of relationship with their GPs.

If your going to be scared about anything it shouldn't be bringing up the subject of your DC, it should be what could happen in the future if you're too scared to say anything about your PILs behaviour.

I think you sound really nice OP, you've admitted there might have been communication problems and would prefer it was your fault (which I agree, I wouldn't want anyone near my DC who would try to prove their point like that).

I really hope you find out what happened (and let us know )

Yes please do let us know and I really do hope it was dh's your fault for not communicating properly.

DH and I talked before going further and decided it was our fault for the reasons listed many times above. Obviously they had all our numbers etc and the park is at the end of the street, but we often feel they are annoyed with us for being over worried about going through those things when we leave them with the kids, which we try to do as much as possible when they come because they ask for it and we get the impression they think we don't trust them and don't give them access. And the kids like them when we're there, so there's no real reason they shouldn't when we're not. So dh says he was too casual in asking and this evening he talked to his mum about it alone. She said she couldn't believe it and thought I had stayed at home and they left quietly also not to disturb dd2. DH is still not convinced, although admits the alternative is very unlikely. But I think I am. I think mil wouldn't risk not being allowed to have the kids. But I think fil is good at talking her into things. But I think all comments above are very fair, there had to be a definite laying out of events and we didn't do it enough, we rushed into it because it was all going wrong. MIL obviously agrees that it would be unthinkable to leave a child alone in a house. This is all the right thing to go to bed thinking. I'm still not completely completely at ease about it, not just about our parenting failure. It may be stupid and wrong of me, it's just that it was so weird and I can't imagine the situation happening if my parents were here.

It is pretty simple really.

Either they didn't realise they were looking after baby and went out - they have done nothing wrong. Bit of a misunderstanding, you all got away with it this time, lucky, make sure it never happens again.

Or they did realise they were looking after baby and went out leaving her alone. In which case they are fucking nutjobs who I wouldn't even have in my house/speak to ever again.

Not sure why this is so complicated for you.

Still seems fishy to me.
Surely if your MIL thought you were there she would still have said goodbye (albeit quietly)when they left?
Didn't she think it odd you didn't reply?
If I were your MIL I would have gone looking for you to let you know we were off.(And, if I were a typical MIL, to have a go at you for not replying )
I suppose that your MIL could be telling the truth and they are just incredibly rude people.