Can I just tell you a story and you advise?

[percysnose]

PILs staying with us. They are very passive aggressive, the father much worse. They always take one of the kids out for hours at a time alone. But we don't see much of them, so although the kids are fine with them, when we're there, the kids are not fine with them on their own. But PILs get stroppy if not allowed alone time with the kids.

On the first day, they take out dd1 (4 years old) all day long. dd1 is a bit miserable when she comes home and this morning begs me to come to the park with them and her. She begs for so long in front of them and says dh going too isn't enough so it ends up with me and dh taking dd1 to the park at about 11am just to stop her crying about it, while they wait at home with dd2 (1 year old) who's sleeping. We slip out quite quietly - MIL is in the front room while we go out, though, and definitely seems to watch us walking past her to leave, and dh says he tells MIL to look after dd2.

We get back an hour and a half later, dd2 is in her cot crying. Maybe because she heard the door when we came in. PILs are not there!

They come in at 3.30pm. They are normal and friendly and chatty and don't say anything that would lead you to think they left their baby grandchild alone in a house. I told dh not to mention it to them. Both dh and me are gobsmacked and terrified. dh says they must have known and his dad must have said oh come on they'll be back soon lets go. But when they got in they said 'did you manage to go out? it's a lovely day today'. So they didn't know! But how could they not have known? They knew dd2 was asleep when they left. Wouldn't you call upstairs to make sure we were there? Or walk round the house? Or something?

Anyway because we didn't mention it we can never mention it now. But I am now terrified of leaving them to babysit. Whether it's on purpose or a mistake, this is really important. What would you have done?

My guess is that grandparents didn't realise they were left in charge of sleeping baby.

I also think when you leave someone in charge of a baby the onus is on you to make sure they know what is going on. Even when it is just me and dh in the house, if I have been watching the children but then need to pop out I would be sure to tell him that it is shift change. It is only fair.

Of course you can mention it now, you should.

Sounds like they aren't brilliant at meeting tbe 4yo's needs. This is nothing for anyone to be ashamed about, they don't take care of her daily. They aren't as responsive to her as her own parents (why would they be?) I don't understand why you feel embarassed about it. No need to sneak out. If they appear sniffy at the suggestion, just brush it off.

Sounds like they didn't know they were left with the baby.

They'll probably be as horrified as you when they discover what happened.

I don't understand, your DH said he told his mother you were going out, yet when they get back neither of you said anything?

One of three things has happened;

• your dh did not tell his mother
• they went out anyway knowing the baby was there
• your MIL did not tell her dh they were baby sitting

All sounds very odd.

Why would you leave your DD2 sleeping in the house without making absolutely sure that GPs knew they were on babysitting duty? Your child, your responsibility. You say that your DH 'thinks' he told his mum but that really wasn't good enough.

You say that your DD1 begged for you to go to the park with her and the GPs, yet you left the house without the GPs in the end? That sounds very rude. Why didn't you wait and all go out together when DD2 woke up (or go earlier and take DD2 in a pushchair)?

Definitely more to this than meets the eye.

Are you coming back, percysnose?

If you don't want to mention it specifically then next time they are there and you have to leaave the room say 'you do know where all the kids are don't you? wouldn't want to leave one at home by themselves'
Or have a blazing row about how you can't trust them.
it could of just been a communication breakdown but you do need to know

It sounds really odd, I'm a bit confused, you need to clarify further.

Do they have a bit of a hearing problem perhaps? A lot of people who do dont like to admit it, or make an issue of it, and pretend to hear or understand when they think they've got the jist of what you are saying and it turns out they haven't. Its unlikely they are both potty though both at once and with no other evidence, so it sounds as if at best your communication was sketchy.

We need more info! Whether it was your fault or their fault that they didn't know, I think its pretty clear they didn't realise that they were babysitting, for whatever reason, whether it was down to you or down to them, I'm sure they wouldn't have done this on purpose.

I think that if your DC are unhappy being left alone with their GPs, then you ought not to leave them. Your primary responsibility is to the care and wellbeing of your children. Whether your ILs are unhappy about the arrangement and prone to moodiness is of no consequence. Do the right thing by your DC.

Also, you should not have left the house without ensuring that your PIL knew they were looking after your baby. This is your baby and you should have asked and made sure. And to not mention it when you come home and find your DC has been left alone? That is a very odd way to behave with family imo.

You are the parents of your DC, not your ILs, so stop letting them make decisions that upset your DC.

Will the op ever come back fgs!

Percysnose -VI'm right with you - my gut tells me they DID know you'd gone out - and what they did was more of the same passive aggression.

Also - alarm bells are ringing about leaving your child alone with them !!

They don't sound good for one's mental health.

I think that you are talking about having "slipped out" because you are trying to rationalise what might have happened in your mind. IE "well we DID leave quietly, maybe they didn't see us" etc.

Sounds to me like they got the hump about it and as there was no tacit agreement for them to stay with your dd they decided to just go out. Who knows how they managed to rationalise that!

FWIW my PIL take my kids out alone for days and sometimes overnight and my kids never come back miserable so it seems to me that something has gone on - too strict or curt with your DD1 perhaps? and that is why she doesn't like going alone with them. I wouldn't allow this anymore.

Think there needs to a bit more straight talking in this situation. Tbh I would have gone mad when they got in but I know that dealing with passive aggressive people can make you feel that you yourself are going nuts. Still I would just say "Why did you go out when you knew that we were out and DD2 would be alone?" and let them say what they will about it.

Hope OP comes back I am intrigued by this.

I'm sorry but you were in the wrong here.

If I leave my son in another persons care I always make sure the person who is responsible for my child knows what's happening, how long I'll be gone for, what to do if my child is upset or if there's an emergency.

You did none of this. You sneaked out with very little or no instruction as to what your ILs needed to do. It's a recipe for total confusion.

I'm totally baffled as to why you didn't raise the issue with them when you realised that DD2 had been left alone.

So either you walked out and left your baby without checking that someone was actually going to be looking after her.

Or your PIL deliberately left a baby in the house on her own, not knowing when anyone was going to be back.

One of you needs serious help. Which one is it?

The only reason I would not have confronted the grandparents in a situation like that, would be if I had not sked/told them to babysit and did not have a leg to stand on.

If they didn't nkow you'd gone out you cannot expect them to stay in. Most parents would be very very clear on it - I am going out now. I will be back at X. Do you mind looking after the baby -0 in fact don't assume you can go out. They may not want to baby sit. You cannot presume they will. It shoudl be more a would you mind, pleading conversation trather than slipping out unnoticed and leaving your child at risk of not having someone there.

Thanks for the understanding, appletrees! I assumed dh had told them and dh said he definitely asked his mum. I said "we slipped out quite quietly" not that we "sneaked out" because dd2 was asleep and it's a small house. And because I"m looking for possible ways this could have happened. MIL was in the front room, we walked through it with dd1 and her trike into the tiny hall and out. About 10 minutes before, MIL had said 'Is she not going out?' about dd2, who had just gone to sleep, and I said 'No, this is her sleep time anyway, she'll be asleep for a couple of hours.' Then there was this big hoo hah in the front room with dd1 clinging to my leg and saying 'PLEASE come as well'. It was because she'd been left for so long the day before, I think, so I wasn't going to say no. My plan had been to peel back and switch with the PILs, once she'd got used to being happy with her dad, but then we just thought we might as well just stay out with her, get her happy again and come home.

Honestly as one or two posters have said, my gut tells me they knew and wanted to make a point and knew we'd be back. And that is what dh thinks too. But it is too scary to contemplate.

I would be glad if it was our fault, obviously, and if it was a misunderstanding because the alternative is awful.

Why didn't you ask them what happened when they came back?
Why on earth wouldn't you?

Massive communication issue here.

If your DH had asked his MIL to mind the baby whilst the three of you went out and then they went out themselves and left her alone, they should have been confronted - why didn't your DH do this if he's sure he was clear about asking them to babysit?

I find it hard to believe that ANYONE would go out and leave a baby alone in a house just to "make a point". It sounds to me like they didn't realise they were being left in charge.

if you can be reasonably sure they were leaving a baby upstairs alone, I'd go through them like a knife through butter

When people are accused of something tempers can get out of control and I didn't want to get to a situation where we would have found it hard to get back from it. There's an edginess in the relationship because my parents live close and we see a lot of them and my PILs are always asking for more time alone with them and saying 'oh you go out all day, go out all night, everything's fine!'. dh swears he asked his mum. We've obviously talked about nothing else. So yesterday when I was at my most jittery I couldn't see how we could talk about this without a gigantic row. And obviously they would say they didn't have a clue and that we were terrible parents. There seemed like no positive that could come from it. I thought I'd wait to see their reaction. And they came back completely normal, not dropping a hint. So I guess what I think is that it WAS a misunderstanding and it WAS our fault. I just have this terrible feeling that there's more to it because it would be quite hard for them to believe dd2 had gone with us. The other thing I thought is that they might have thought I had stayed with dd2 and was quietly talking to her in her room.

Persysnose, good on you for coming back. I agree that the alternative is pretty awful.

Did you communicate your plan with your PILs? (That you would switch with them once DD was happy). If not, surely it must have looked a bit rude. One minute, they are talking about taking DD out to the park, the next minute you and your DH have taken her out, leaving them behind with no explanation. Or have I misunderstood?

I'm not saying that excuses their behaviour (if they really did leave DD2 on her own then that is appalling) but it does look as if your actions could have been construed as a snub.

Also, I'm a bit confused by what you mean when you say you assumed DH told them you were going out. It is a joint responsibility to make sure your children are looked after. Surely you would have asked your DH at the time whether he had asked your MIL (or just asked her directly?), rather than assuming. That does sound a bit irresponsible, I'm afraid.

Still, if you are sure your DH asked your MIL before you left then you need to discuss it with them before you let them spend any more time alone with your DCs. As your DH did the asking at the time, it would be good if he could lead the conversation. If your PILs were 'making a point', you need to know - if they can put your DCs at risk like that then you need to think about whether unsupervised contact is appropriate.

Agree with colditz. If you are sure your DH asked them to watch dd2 and they just walked out and left her, I would be apoplectic.

If there had been a fire, would you have enquired then why they left her alone?
Fgs it's quite a drastic thing that happened and could have ended up very differently .

You need to ask them, sod the row, your childrens well being is at stake here.
Still gobsmacked that you didn't.