to think a MN kicking is deserved here

[schoolpanic]

dh just tweeted these vile t shirts (in ourtraged horror, not amusement)

www.jamrags.com/viewDetail.php?proid=79&color=Black

www.jamrags.com/viewDetail.php?proid=70&color=Navy

and yes, they're meant to be offensive. but as a humourless feminist and proud of it i think we should object. strongly.

but how!?

Barmy...please... censorship runs rampant in the US(and is perpetuated by our government), and Americans are far more prudish about this sort of stuff...that company wouldn't survive in the US, first amendment or not!

Of course it would. Look at the protection the first ammendment gives to white power groups etc.

They don't protect them at all...they are allowed, however to assemble peacefully. Every group has that opportunity. But, you still can't incite a riot/hatred, etc.

How is that not protecting them? Their rights to free speech and assembly are being protected?
These t-shirts do not incite violence or hatred and so would be fine in the U.S. where the law is concerned with specifically promoting violence. If you express views which do not explicitly implore violence but which may lead to others committing violence you are not guilty of a crime.
Like white power groups or militant black groups this company would be protected under the guise of free speech because at no point does it implore violence.

They wouldn't be condoned, regardless of the first amendment. There are still books that are banned in many areas of the country, certain brands of clothing are not allowed to be worn in public schools because of inappropriate messages, and advertisements that are deemed racist, sexist, etc. have been pulled off the air.

Would the government step in and dismantle this company? Of course not, but there is enough self censorship in the US to make me pretty certain that these t shirts wouldn't be sold for long.

This all reminds me of a decision I made a while ago - if you thought Brass Eye should have been banned (especially Paedogeddon) without ever having watched it, then you are too stupid and up yourself for me ever to consider you as a friend...

Sorry SGB this doesn't compare to Brass Eye and I'm sure Chris Morris would be outraged by the comparison. Brass Eye was funny but also highly intelligent and is respected by many comedians and satirists throughout the world which has spawned classics such as CNNNN etc.

These t-shirts have no sense or irony or intelligence. I loved how someone further upthread tried to read some intelligence into the Gang-rape t-shirt. They are not making a statement about society they just think jokes about rape are funny ffs! They are made by cynical people who want to attract a niche market consisting of people who think a good night out involves 10 pints of 'wife beater' followed by a fight outside the kebab shop or taxi rank on Friday night. In short, morons.

I don't agree with banning the t-shirts as that's the type of publicity the makers want especially as they cannot be making much money, maybe only off the type of idiot that has so much money they can afford to waste money on t-shirts they can only wear around the house. The site is probably a side-project set up by a couple of bored marketing agency people or something. I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of some dumb viral marketing campaign tbh.

"Sorry SGB this doesn't compare to Brass Eye and I'm sure Chris Morris would be outraged by the comparison. Brass Eye was funny but also highly intelligent and is respected by many comedians and satirists throughout the world which has spawned classics such as CNNNN etc.
"

I'd imagine the opposite. having seen first hand what reactionary censorship and outrage looks like (fled the country and stayed off camera for a long time) he'd recognise the hypocrisy of people who believe that their satire and humour is ok because they feel it's intelligent and acceptable but others is not due to their own subjective moral compass.

"
These t-shirts have no sense or irony or intelligence. I loved how someone further upthread tried to read some intelligence into the Gang-rape t-shirt. They are not making a statement about society they just think jokes about rape are funny ffs! They are made by cynical people who want to attract a niche market consisting of people who think a good night out involves 10 pints of 'wife beater' followed by a fight outside the kebab shop or taxi rank on Friday night. In short, morons."

Once again something I reckon Morris would disagree with (although either of us positing what he may or may not think is pure conjecture). Exactly the same sort of criticism was levelled at brass eye (that it had no satirical value and was merely infantile shock-value comedy about an issue which nobody should joke about.) and he felt the brunt of it.
You can see how subjective the line is on threads like this or an old one I remember on Frankie Boyle. People coming on and talking in absolutes about subjective comedy. i.e. it's never acceptable to joke about rape/paedophilia/race. but then other people mentioning comics or shows such as brass eye or peep show which have done exactly that. Is one more acceptable because you deem it more intelligent?
I dealt with the racism t-shirt earlier on "I'm not a racist.because racism is a crime and crime is for black people." If that had been delivered by Morris on brass eye it would go down as one of his brilliant satirical lines lampooning racists who try to paint themselves as PC but immediately trip themselves up.

(Chris Morris sitting at his desk Paxman style) I'm not a racist. Because racism is a crime... (turns to camera left..it does a dramatic zoom in to close up with the news gong) and crime is for black people.. (brass eye theme starts up).

It's exactly the same as what happens with all comedy. If you like it you defend it as wit/satire/tongue in cheek if you hate it because you see no value in it and think it is merely hate speech disguised as comedy which allows people to air their racist/sexist views and can then hide behind "FFS can you not take a joke/You need to lighten up.". None of us know anything about the person who has designed these yet we are all willing to attribute out own images of who they are, you think it's pissed up hooligans. I reckon it's middle-class twenty somethings who are into shocking dark humour and black images as a sort of abstract comedy which satirises the media culture of today.

In fact for the reaction to brass eye all you have to do is look at the reactionary shit that The Sun printed about it having branded it "the sickest show ever" and then ran a story slating it on the paedogeddon show while having an article perving over the then 15 year old Charlotte Church's breasts beside it.

www.geeks.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/charlotte.jpg

mayorquimby, will you marry me?

Maybe you're right but to me Brass Eye and this crap do not compare. I read every single TV Go Home (at work and almost got a warning for it!) and it was totally un-PC but was witty with some of the funniest writing ever.

I think these people are trying to do something similar but have missed the mark completely because they don't have the same level of intelligence as Morris or Brooker who were actually taking the mickey out of the reactionary types as well as the type of people who like this type of crap.

The makers of the t-shirts just appear to be the type of hipsters who aren't making a statement and being funny but are just goading people for the sake of controversy and who are trying to appeal to 14 year olds who are trying to shock their parents and twats. Its quite boring even if they think they're being wacky.

I think Morris and Brooker would take the piss out of both the 'Outraged of Tunbridge Wells' brigade and the hipster Shoreditch 'creatives' who came up with this doo doo as well as the people that buy their 'hilarious' t-shirts.

I'm not into banning things as it helps me identify who the idiots are plus I'm not some humourless leftie. However, in my personal opinion this stuffs just predictably antagonistic, not funny and just plain boring hipster 'you see I'm like being totally ironic because my t-shirt says I hate Muslims so it means I'm totally not because I'm like totally making a statement about Islamaphobia and how wrong it is' crap.

No it shouldn't be banned. No it's nothing like Brass Eye. No it's not very funny.

It's a website that sells not that amazing t shirts. It doesn't deserve your/our time. I can't believe anyone even cares about it.

God it looks like the t-shirts have been designed by a bunch of 15 year old spotty boys who would run a mile if a woman actually spoke to them.

Are they worth bothering with? I have a sneaky suspicion they'd really love it if they thought people were outraged.

Maybe report the racist ones to someone official (who I have no idea) and let them take it on if they want to.

"I think Morris and Brooker would take the piss out of both the 'Outraged of Tunbridge Wells' brigade and the hipster Shoreditch 'creatives' who came up with this doo doo as well as the people that buy their 'hilarious' t-shirts."

I'd agree with you completely.which is why I picked out this part of your earlier post

"They are made by cynical people who want to attract a niche market consisting of people who think a good night out involves 10 pints of 'wife beater' followed by a fight outside the kebab shop or taxi rank on Friday night. In short, morons."

When I reckoned it's more likely being made by middle-class 20 somethings hipsters from shoreditch, i.e. the Nathan Barley character who Chris Morris and Charlie Brooker created specifically to send up people like this.I.e. those who think they are being witty and satirical because they swear or sign off by saying "peace and fucking, yeah?"

My only point was about people who were either claiming that these t-shirts should be banned or reported to the police when there is clearly nothing illegal about them or for the people who speak in absolutes about comedy and what crosses the line of decency as though it was an objective matter.
So for the people who say you should never joke about rape/racism/paedophillia but then in their next post will defend shows like peep show,southpark,brass eye or Nathan Barley all of which have used these subjects as jumping off points for humour.
Now I'd agree that there's a huge difference between jokes which are based on these subjects or jokes which are based on those subjects being funny in and of themselves. But as you say yourself in your own post it's impossible to know, it could be that they were trying to immitate the stylings of Brass eye or the day today and simply didn't get the tone right because they are not intelligent enough or lack the same sort of social observation skills or even maybe their timing is simply off and 10 years ago they would have been on the curve but now it's all been done so they look redundant and infantile, but does that make them racist or hate-filled? Equally they could be moronic racists, it's hard to tell when something is in print.

"in my personal opinion this stuffs just predictably antagonistic, not funny and just plain boring hipster 'you see I'm like being totally ironic because my t-shirt says I hate Muslims so it means I'm totally not because I'm like totally making a statement about Islamaphobia and how wrong it is' crap."

Haha you've actually put a better description on them than I ever could. That's exactly how I'd imagine them. Not racist, but just people who think they're the first person to ever "go against societies expectations" and think they're far more intelligent and with it than they actually are.

Do i think some of these t shirts are funny? yes very much so.
Do I think some of them are out of line? yes very much so.

I was offended by some of them but you know what? I live in a free democratic society as such I have to accept the fact that I must live alongside people and things I find offensive. I am not entitled to have my feelings protected and nor is anyone else. If you don't like it just ignore and move on. Don't allow your moral outrage to weaken our freedoms. To rape someone is a crime, to laugh at it may be disgusting or repugnant to me but it is not illegal and nor should it be.

oh and I will take tethersend's proposal under consideration, it will at the very least keep the gf on her toes and force her to up her game.

i can assure you that the site owners would love any outraged from tunbridge wells type emails you send.

the whole point of these t shirts is to offend.

if you email how outraged and offended you are they will simply use them as marketing.

Calm down dear, its only a t shirt.

I think you maybe could be arrested for wearing some of these outside, several people were for the infamous 'Jesus is a c*nt' T-shirt (see here for example)

fasthosts apparently run livedns who host the site.

fasthost states in its terms and conditions that:

3.3 Material must not:

3.3.1 be defamatory of any person;

3.3.2 be obscene, offensive, or inflammatory;

3.3.3 contain any adult material. Adult material includes all pornography; or otherwise lewd or obscene content. The designation of 'adult material' is left entirely to the discretion of Fasthosts.

3.3.5 infringe any copyright, or trade mark.;

3.3.6 be likely to deceive any person;

3.3.7 promote or assist any illegal activity;

3.3.8 be threatening, abusive or invade another's privacy, or cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety;

soooo... yhou could complain to them and i think they'd take it seriously

YEs, but if you did complain you would be an officious little twat in need of a life. I have noticed that the sort of people who spend their time looking for stuff to take offence at rarely, if ever, do anything much about serious threats to other people's freedom or wellbeing.

FFS. There are 1,000 better things to spend your time on if you want to fight the good fight.

An actual MN campaign against a lame-ass little concern like this would diminish the value of MN campaigns as a whole. You have to pick your battles; this one just isn't worthwhile. Really.

Deeply unfunny shirts, though. and at pag mouthing "wanker" at the wanker.

"you would be an officious little twat in need of a life" well that's telling them !

Crumbs SGB, I've read your views on this, but sounds like you cannot accept any alternative view is "allowed". I've rarely seen such an uncompromising view expressed in such strong terms.

Fortunately, I can agree to disagree, and won't take the comment as an insult, just myopic stirring.

well said NetworkGuy

people who are unable to accept that other people may have opposing views to theirs are incredibly narrow-minded, which I have to say i've never really thought about SGB before!

also agree with a previous poster who pointed out that it's always worthwhile challenging offensive and anti-social behaviour

of course there is a whole host of other "worse" problems, but that doens't mean we should all sit back and let people do whatever they want regardless of the consequences.