Witnessing abuse of children

[PosieParker]

I've been reading a fair few threads recently about adults who witness parents being vile to children and do nothing about it. I have on a number of occasions phoned the police when children/babies don't have car seats, reported a woman who smacked, what looked like, her granddaughter and shoved here in a van with no seats, confronted a woman that threatened to smack her dds face (she was uber rough and the little girl was about six) she also threatened the little girl with her father when she got home, the list goes on. I have never been hit although threatened.

Am I unreasonable to think it's just me who speaks out?

are you a registered sw gigantaur?

I have had an almost identical argument about this on another thread- I think I'm going to bow out actually and go to bed.

The only thing I will say is that when SS are 'successful' and do their job well, protecting children from abuse and neglect, the end result is still a tragedy for all parties involved. This is why nobody hears about the horrific abusive situations which children are removed from every day, and it's only the minority of cases which have been handled wrogly which make it into the public consciousness via the media.

I work with children who are victims of abuse and I think this heavily influences my viewpoint on this issue.

"The state doesn't exactly have a great record of looking after children. The assumption that their involvement is always benign is deeply misguided."

I would never assume that the state's involvement is benign, but this does not mean that the state should become disinvolved- the risks are too great. The state has and does look after children well- not every time, and it cannot often replicate the loving family environment so desperately needed by damaged children, but it protects them from abuse and neglect. We just never hear about it.

I am a very laid back and patient parent and rarely get stressed. I also do not hit or smack my children, although I do admit to occasionally shouting at the older two. I do remember though once in the supermarket when I wa shaving an extremely bad day and DS2 was exhibiting foul behaviour which eventually resulted in him making his younger brother, in the trolley seat, cry. I did lose my temper and grabbed his arm quite roughly and spoke to him quite harshly through gritted teeth. Goodness knows what it looked like to passers by, but at that exact moment, had one of them questioned me, my reply may have included some colourful language. Yet there is no way I view any of this as normal or acceptable behaviour. However, we are all human and probably all do things we later regret.

Personally, I think the OP comes across as rather sanctimonious. Not only the mentioning of the different fathers of the children in the shop, but also mentioning that the man with the baby was 'middle class'...

Says she can be a shouty parent.

Admits to 'appeasing onlookers' on a bad parenting day.

Regularly reports other random parents for child abuse, based on snapshots in public.

Makes the assumption that all parents treat their children better in public than they treat them in private.

So Posie, when your onlookers are gone, how do you treat your own children, at home, on a bad parenting day?

Ever shout at them in a way that might alarm someone, if witnessed in public?

Not everyone presents a facade to the world, even on a bad day. Some people, what you get is what you see. I'm much more afraid of people who are appeasing onlookers, TBH. Chilling.

I just did a Sure Start parenting course, run by two social workers. People in there admitted to shouting, swearing, smacking, telling kids to go back out and hit the bully back or dad would hit them, telling kids not to be stupid, letting children under 10 ride bikes around Council estates with no supervision until 11 pm, smoking cigarettes indoors, drinking heavily around children, etc.

No one got referred to SS.

Whaaaat the op claimed to be a SW that is out of order. What she mentions in her op is not abuse: Threatening dd with her father, being rough, shouting (in a non abusive way), sometimes needs must especially when you cannot reason with a screaming, crying tantruming 3 year old who has no sense of danger and is running willy nilly all over the pavement. Would rather manhandle her and be rough than see her killed or seriously injured by a car. FFs ok, look at yourself before judging, and reporting people on flimsy grounds.

I admire you Posie for not going off on one and having a strop at posters not agreeing with you (and I don't mean that in a patronising way), not a bun or hardhat in sight famous last words...

I agree with slouching, if you take it upon yourself to be morally outraged at other peoples parenting, however well intentioned, you have to be above reproach yourself.

Most parents aspire to be the best they can and 959% of the time they get it right, but it's just an aspiration because we're not robots. Unless you're a better parent than the rest of us, you must be the same.

Surely not all the parents in the situations you intervened in had sinister motivations behind the way they were acting? Or is that the crux of the matter, that you believe they do because you see it out of context?

I think you are far more likely in the UK than anywhere else to attract the attention of a disapproving audience if you have a child or baby with you who is crying for genuine baby or child reasons, than if you are an adult treating your child horribly. The philosophy being that it is desirable to have your child behave perfectly in public so as not to disturb anyone else, and therefore any measures necessary to achieve that end are fine. (Just don't scare the horses).

Having a society where queues are orderly and using an escalator is a joy and everyone signals turns is fine, but I think priorities are a bit skewed if that is seen as some sort of great accomplishment while according to the NSPCC about 80 children are murdered in England and Wales each year, one every 10 days. And for every child killed there are many more injured in many ways.

How much of the context does an onlooker have to understand before concluding that behaviour is ott? Are people really so completely unable to interpret tone of voice and facial expressions and gestures that a scene in a shop would be rendered absolutely incomprehensible? People who can watch a film and understand a plot that takes under two hours to develop and portray onscreen are somehow unable to size up a situation in front of their own eyes where a grown adult treats a child to a display of rage, in public, for something that wasn't the child's fault? How would anyone go about their day's business if they were so incapable of accurately reading the various ways people communicate?

It's weird my OP wasn't asking if I was unreasonable in my own behaviour, but more asking why so many people walk on by with situations they describe on MN. I am shocked that so many people have described petty little incidents with their dcs and told me that I would have reported them, mostly people with depression (I wasn't aware that it's okay to be a shit parent if you had depression, just that you need more support and GP's help) or children running into roads and parents getting very very cross. I didn't say I had witnessed abuse, the situation I described with the woman in the shop was not a frustrated mother at the ened of her tether, it was a woman who flew into a violent rage and threats because he little girl couldn't stop her unwatched three year old from falling over. It's not remotely the same.

Has noone ever seen a stressed parent and wanted to help, ever? Good God. I've had people stop and help me fix my tyre when my baby was crying, should I have told them where to go?

"Not everyone presents a facade to the world, even on a bad day. Some people, what you get is what you see. I'm much more afraid of people who are appeasing onlookers, TBH. Chilling. " slouching And the list of what people did on your parenting course isn't some sort of measure of what's okay, it's people seeking help and admitting how bad things have got.

Regularly reports other random parents for child abuse

ffs, about four times in the last 8 years or so, I have had as many babies and I wouldn't say they were regular.

The problem you have PP is stretched resources and what you are describing is not abuse, it's not nice but the SW's on mumsnet have all stated it's not serious in isolation.
But there are only so many hours in a day and if a SW is following up your uneducated observations they may not have the time to be dealing with something a teacher has observed day in day out for a whole term.
I seriously think unless you see a child physically being hurt you should keep your nose out, for your own good as much as anything else.

Scottishmummy - no not currently. I was a SAHM for a while so registration lapsed and i am currently working in a role that doesn't require me to be registered so i haven't bothered.

kinda guessed you were sw you know your stuff on the sw threads

(I wasn't aware that it's okay to be a shit parent if you had depression, just that you need more support and GP's help)

If thats aimed at me I never said I was a shit parent quite the opposite actually my little girl is loved and happy and she has pleanty of friends. If you go around reporting people for minor incidents I can imagine people kept their children away from yours out of fear of being judged as you seem to do a lot of people who aren't as perfect as you are.

Concentrate on your own life....but then I'm sure your kids are angels who do no wrong(hmm)

seriously you are going to get yourself into trouble one of these days....you are just lucky so far.

(shock) I can't believe you pushed that poor bloke into letting you hold his baby...totally unacceptable. I bet the dc's mother was livid, I would be....you are a stranger to them, not your place to intervene.

Are you going to report your self for inpersonating a SW? I wonder how many other proffesions you have pretended to be...nurse?police officer?

posie you are coming across as nebbie busybody