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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Witnessing abuse of children

191 replies

PosieParker · 30/07/2010 12:30

I've been reading a fair few threads recently about adults who witness parents being vile to children and do nothing about it. I have on a number of occasions phoned the police when children/babies don't have car seats, reported a woman who smacked, what looked like, her granddaughter and shoved here in a van with no seats, confronted a woman that threatened to smack her dds face (she was uber rough and the little girl was about six) she also threatened the little girl with her father when she got home, the list goes on. I have never been hit although threatened.

Am I unreasonable to think it's just me who speaks out?

OP posts:
Original poster
PosieParker · 30/07/2010 20:24

with not from

OP posts:
Original poster
PosieParker · 30/07/2010 20:25

onagar.....

So if you saw someone getting into a car after staggering out of a pub, with children in the car, you would do nothing? at all?

OP posts:
onagar · 30/07/2010 20:40

PosieParker the scenario you just described doesn't tell me who is driving or even if they are drunk. I stagger a bit when I walk. In my case it's not alcohol, but pain that causes it. It would not be wise to accuse me of being drunk if you saw me staggering along holding my grandsons hand.

You are taking it upon yourself to judge these things without full information.

Now that you know that you committed an offence by saying you were a social worker you are not going to report that are you?

onagar · 30/07/2010 20:45

I should add quickly that you should NOT report yourself. On paper what you did would sound so much worse that it really was. Your intent might be ignored and the letter of the law applied.

That's the point though isn't it. Things can look worse than they really are.

skidoodly · 30/07/2010 20:46

Sorry, I am the last person to go reporting stuff, but if I saw a woman, who appeared to be drunk, stagger out of a pub, get into a car, and drive off, I would report that to the police.

scottishmummy · 30/07/2010 21:05

Since 1 April 2005, the title ?social worker? has been protected in England by Section 61 of the Care Standards Act 2000. Individuals who are not registered on the Social Care Register (?the Register?) will be in breach of Section 61 of the Care Standards Act, if they: describe themselves as a social worker.

so do you plan to march yourself to the police and report this crime?

why are you lying abou being a social worker when pulling up parents?do you claiom to be any other professions nurse?police officer? or just sw

MissBonpoint · 30/07/2010 21:06

PosieParker I think it's good to do something to help a child in need - there's another saying about abused childred...something like you may be their only friend in the world... ie, don't turn a blind eye. But knowing what the right thing to do is is another thing. But how do you report a general member of the public without intervening. Tough situation.

tethersend · 30/07/2010 21:07

skidoodly, can I just ask you for a situation where looking the other way is the right thing to do?

Genuinely asking, not trying to bait you...

MissBonpoint · 30/07/2010 21:11

PosieParker I think it's good to do something to help a child in need - there's another saying about abused children...something like you may be their only friend in the world... ie, don't turn a blind eye. But knowing what the right thing to do is is another thing. People who bully children shouldn't be allowed to feel it is permitted in public just because everyone's too much of a coward to do something. I think your reaction has to be proportional. Can't just be a nosey parker every time a child gets a smack.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 30/07/2010 21:17

PP I am sure your intentions are good but you come across as patronising and judgemental.

WitchyWooWoo · 30/07/2010 21:22

phew just finished reading this thread. posie i can both admire and be slightly disgusted by your actions. its great to see someone who isn't afraid to stand up to people etc who are doing wrong, but really, choose your battles.

not every child you see being screamed at is being abused, and i dont see how reporting someone who you dont know and have no details: name, address, number etc will have -ANY- effect whatsoever. i think you need to stop doing so much reporting, i can understand saying something but not all this reporting.

fwiw my biological father was abusive to my mother, punched her in the stomach when preg etc, yet my stepfather (more real than that monster could ever be) is the kindest man in the world so your comment about fathers was unjustified.

i really do feel that you are interfering with things that have nothing to do with you, just put your energies into your own children and if there is something that -really- worries you then yes, report.

another fwiw i think you did the right thing re: woman in the pub

scottishmummy · 30/07/2010 21:28

posie,what are you seeking posing this?praise?approbation?recognition.

your tone is a bitty jolly hockeysticks and evocative of saving children from the vile plebs.your heroic actions and all that.did you embelish any stories to put self in favourable light

skidoodly · 30/07/2010 22:01

@ tether

No, it's a fair question. I did think about that before I posted it.

I guess the kinds of situation I'm talking about are the one described by Posie where she saw a man pushing a crying baby around and felt so terrible for the baby she had to step in. I think in that kind of situation it is better to avert your gaze from the crying rather than think it is something to do with you and that you should attempt to fix.

Then again, it's not a general rule. A kind offer to hold a baby might be appreciated, but the way the interaction was first described sounded quite bossy and overbearing.

I've seen that kind of thing on here before, with people insisting that it is impossible for them to just stand by while a baby cries and I really think they should get over themselves and let people deal with their babies as best they can.

Most of the time everybody benefits if we generally assume the best of one another rather than the worst.

Tiredmumno1 · 30/07/2010 22:08

So you wont pose a sw again.

that makes it ok then

Tiredmumno1 · 30/07/2010 22:09

as a - sorry

pigletmania · 30/07/2010 22:10

Its good to be vigilant and if you spot 'real' abuse than report it, but you do not know the entire situation,only a snapshot, and may be making judgements that may not reflect the fuller picture. For example my dd 3.4 was tantruming in the street, she let go of my hand and ran in the road, thankfully a quiet one but if a car came round the corner could be fatal. I gave her a smack there and then, as the consequence could be tragic. If you saw me you would have reported me, and it would have split up a loving caring family. Yes I have been known to shout 'non abusively' to dd when in a tantrum as no other thing works, does not mean I am a child abuser likened to baby P abusers. We are not perfect parents and kids bring out the best and worse in us, does not mean we are abusers.

pigletmania · 30/07/2010 22:13

Posie you have to use common sense and not go reporting willy nilly

Tiredmumno1 · 30/07/2010 22:14

And if my dh came home and told me some strange woman stuck her nose in cos the baby was crying, so she held him/her i would have gone nuts. you are a stranger and i would not want you holding my baby.

pigletmania · 30/07/2010 22:18

OP I am afraid that you do come across as quite sanctimonious, and judgy, thank goodness you are not my GP

tethersend · 30/07/2010 22:30

Thanks skidoodly, I understand your point a little better now

The problem I am having is that so many people think that you have to be certain that abuse is taking place before alerting SS/the police- it's their job to ascertain whether or not abuse has taken place. Alerting them is not the same as being certain; why is it necessary to act as judge and jury? Why not let trained professionals do their job?

I know unwarranted SS involvement is devastating, but I differ from you in that I would rather be over cautious than not report and potentially let abuse continue IYSWIM... You say that most of the time everybody benefits if we generally assume the best of one another rather than the worst; it could be argued that it is this which allowed so much abuse to continue in the past even in the face of almost indisputable evidence; people simply did not want to believe that it was happening. I think that still happens today. A lot.

deepbreath · 30/07/2010 22:32

OP, I am concerned that someone, someday may assault you for approaching them. Have your dc's been with you when you have taken action?

I don't know if anyone else has covered this already, but there is an exception in the car seat law that allows for essential/unplanned journeys (I can't remember the exact wording).

Riven, for example, would have been OK legally on the way home from hospital with her dd.

Tiredmumno1 · 30/07/2010 22:34

And the police would not do anything unless they saw it themselves

skidoodly · 30/07/2010 22:46

I don't think you need to be certain, of course not. But I do think you need to have reasonable grounds for suspicion.

I've read people on here advising that you should report ANY doubt, or niggle or worry you had about a family, ANYTHING that looked strange to you and then "let the professionals do their job".

I don't want to live in a world where it is the job of "trained professionals" to mediate in misunderstandings between neighbours and friends.

It is not good for children to be brought up in a society where there is such paranoia around their wellbeing that even the slightest doubt about how they are being raised is worthy of being reported.

The precautionary principle is not a harmless one. You ignore massive risks to the wellbeing of children if you advocate bypassing people's judgement and just leaving everything to the authorities.

The state doesn't exactly have a great record of looking after children. The assumption that their involvement is always benign is deeply misguided.

Gigantaur · 30/07/2010 22:48

I am appalled that you claimed to be a SW.

Quite frankly if you had spouted such ridiculous bullshit at me i would have wanted to know your name and which authority you worked for so that i could complain.

Please, if yo want to walk around vigilante style interfering then do not use an already difficult profession as cover.

scottishmummy · 30/07/2010 22:50

posie you righteous tone and op title are grossly sanctimonious.cue you as avenging angel.hmmmm.perhaps you presume and assume erroneously