AIBU to think that childfree living forum is sick!!!

[dekoLL]

but the language used on this site is just shocking! if you all got such a perfect , selfulfilling life, why are you wasting it by ranting on this forum, even more..wasting time looking through mums forums to show off how negative parent?s life is. This is just pathetic!!!! You show such a strange hatred to mums and whole idea of parenthood, and created new concepts and meanings around this hate. This looks almost like hitlero style site. I cannot comprehend how can you be so spiteful and why to women that choose to have children, although you are yourself children of mothers that are just the same as the ones that you attacking. Moos.....baybee....that is so childish and sick! And i think you all like little never- to ? grow up children, and that?s why having kids scares you so much. This forum could be a perfect source of perfect psychology PhD thesis.....
sick ideology of never milked cows...mooooooooooo!!!!!!!

Vetnursegirl, how on earth to you deduce that I have implied that childfree people are not human?????

wanting a car is very different from wanting a baby. Wanting children is more instinctive.

Many childless people suffer terribly because they don't have a child. It's not in the same ball park as wanting something else. You make it sound very whimsical to describe it as a mere want.

Also, the decision to have a child, or another child is not based on logic. It's a longing which is weighed up against the various costs (time, money etc)

Just because some people (majority or not) feel it is a need more than a want, doesn't mean that it is based on instinct.

And saying that it is instinctive sounds like you are implying that those people that do not find it instinctive are somehow going against their nature. Which isn't really the nicest thing to say.

Wanting a baby may be instinctive to you and hundreds of other people, but (crucially) not all people! Therefore it is obviously not instinctive to the human race in general, just selected members of it.

Thank you Kaloki! That's what I'm trying to say

Valium, you are saying that wanting babies is an instinct (instincts, as I have said, are undeniably urges common to a species), therefore as childfree people don't want children, you are saying they are not of the same species as you. Clearly this is unfair.

You then describe having children as a 'decision' based on logic (which is the opposite of instinct).

Yes childLESS people suffer very much because they want something they don't have. ChildFREE people do not suffer from not having babies, because they do not want them.

I am sorry to keep going on but implying childfree people are unnatural is just really rude and vindicates any rudeness they spew towards us.

I have never implied that childfree people are unnatural... although you have incorrectly deduced that, and quoted it back to me twice. Bizarre.

Of course the decision to have children is instinctive. None of us would do it if we just thought about it logically, how much time it would take up, how much money it would cost, the responsibility, pregnancy, delivery..... we are hardwired to reproduce, and I have never come across anybody before who would seriously argue otherwise.

Some people override this instinct, it doesn't make them "unnatural".

As someone infertile - I find being called an evolutionary dead end absolutely utterly charming. Calling anyone that, wishing infertility and miscarriages on them is as disgusting as the behaviour you're condemning.

I would never wish infertility on my worst enemy - it truly is a pain you should rejoice you never have to feel.

Eating is an instinct, sleeping is an instinct.. they are requirements for living.

Here, from the dictionary

"An inherited tendency of an organism to behave in a certain way. The development and performance of instinctive behavior does not depend upon the specific details of an individual's learning experiences. Instead, instinctive behavior develops in the same way for all individuals of the same species"

It isn't a negotiable thing, it is something the species does. By talking about having children as an instinct, especially in the context of a conversation about people who do not want children, suggests that those who are childfree are going against the nature of our species.

Whether you mean it to sound that way is something else entirely.

If I put it into a more controversial subject maybe you'll see how it sounds. The majority of the human race is heterosexual, therefore is heterosexuality an instinct?

This is also relevant as homosexual sex cannot produce children, so if producing children is instinct, isn't it going against the human instinct?

You wouldn't say these things.

Eh - Nobody called you an evolutionary dead end. YOU used that term. You say though that you wouldn't wish the pain of infertility on your worst enemy. Why is it so painful though? Because we are hardwired to want to reproduce. That's why infertility is so painful - because it's not just something you want that you can talk yourself out of wanting.

"As someone infertile - I find being called an evolutionary dead end absolutely utterly charming. Calling anyone that, wishing infertility and miscarriages on them is as disgusting as the behaviour you're condemning."

Oh, is this from the other forum?

Sorry I thought you were talking about somebody on this thread!

kaloki, homosexuals of both sexes often want families and have them. Your 'arguments' are ....... riddles.

I'm pointing out that if it was so instinctual to reproduce then there would be no homosexuality, as it would serve no purpose.

But it is not instinctive, the majority do want children, I am not disputing that. I am just disputing the use of the word instinct. As going against instinct is unnatural, and not wanting children is not unnatural.

It is instinctive to want children. It is how the human race, and indeed all other species on the planet, have succeeded and continued.

However, there are many, many ways in which the human race has evolved and society has conditioned us to not necessarily act on our instincts.

For example, if someone does wrong by us our instincts tell us to fight or flight but society tells us we must override this instinct in order to be a civilised community.

We also often choose to override our instincts. For example, my instinct tells me to eat until I'm full. Through my own choice and a desire to be slim I choose to override this instinct.

Individuals who choose not to have children are choosing to override their human instinct to reproduce. It's not wrong, it's a choice. Their desire to reap the benefits of childfree living outweighs any desire to have children.

The human race has been conditioned to such an extend that many of our once uniform and hardwired instincts are now variable.

The need to reproduce is instinctive. It is human nature to act upon that instinct based on our own perogative.

All humans "go against" their natural insticts on a daily basis. No-one is saying that is wrong.

Valium; you are impossible. You said earlier procreation was instinct, then that it was a decision reached by logic, then that no one would do it if they thought about it logically, then that it was hardwired. I can't keep up and I don't really want to.

I only wanted to point out to anyone that thinks there is something unnatural or 'wrong' about the childfree, and there are plenty of people that do, that they are being offensive, making unfair, ill-informed generalisations and provoking the vitriol seen on the forum mention by the OP.

You're not reading my posts properly so it's impossible to have a conversation with you.

I don't think there's anything wrong with people who choose not to have children, if you have an issue with people who think that, it's nothing to do with me.

I haven't been offensive to anybody. I'm off now.

The problem, as far as I can make out, is the equation INSTINCT = GOOD which is just balls, frankly.

There's few more ironic tropes on the 'net than threads in forums being outraged by threads on diametrically opposed forums. What the f*ck did you expect to find on there, seriously?

Leave them alone, they're causing you no harm...

Having children is not an instinct; it's a choice, why? Because we have SELF WILL which overrides instinct.

We have children because we want to; We have children because we can and mostly we have children for purely selfish reasons. Everyone on here wants to claim they had children for the good of mankind?? No I did not think so; you had children because you wanted them (self will). If having and caring for children was an instinct we would have no children within the care system as there would be no bad parents.

The Childfree make a conscious decision not to have children, end of. Some people do not like dogs, some people do not like the French I personally do not like children. Does that make me a bad person, NO. Just read the tabloids and you will see how many bad parents there are out there, how much child cruelty is caused by actual parents! So before you start attacking the CF movement, remember being a bad parent ruin?s peoples lives, being Childfree does not.
It always amazes me how many people do not like, see or speak to their own parents. Walk into a retirement home and see how many of people do not see their own children.

The CF will never be hated by their own children, that is for sure.

Not all parents of-course are bad, and not all the CF deserve what has been written about them on this thread. If you had actually read the UK Living board you would have seen its bad parents that we have a problem with. The language may have been colourful but it is an adult internet board, not play time at nursery. We do not need a ?watershed?.

'colourful'?

I don't think anyone was attacking the CF Movement just the rather hateful attitude and language displayed. But yes, of course, live and let live. But why do some from that forum come over to MN and glean material. Surely MN and it's breeders shouldn't be an issue for them?

I agree Orm that it was a bit masochistic for them to come over and glean material from MN to moan about but it appears they've had pretty brutal payback a thousand fold.

I can only think it's because those who have children can be seen to be having a negative effect on the childfree (for money/work/noise issues already mentioned) whereas the cf have a positive effect on 'breeders' (paying more tax/ help with childcare/ picking up slack at work) and this perceived injustice must lead them to the colourful language and venting seen. I suppose taking the piss out of MN is just an extension of rants on RL issues.

"Everyone on here wants to claim they had children for the good of mankind?? No I did not think so; you had children because you wanted them (self will)"

Of course that's true. And that wasnt what I (and I don't think anyone else on this thread) was saying. I said that parents are fulfilling the role of producing the next generation which allows society to continue. For their own selfish needs and desires? Absolutely. But the consequence of that selfish decision is that the next generation is born and our society model continues to function.

Another by-product of the majority of people choosing to reproduce is that they are allowing those who remain child free by choice to do so and yet still enjoy all the perks of society continuing. If the vast majority thought the same way those who chose to remain child free did, then society would collapse. Which doesn't sit very well with the hatred of parents all over that board. I wouldn't expect gratitude, I totally agree that parents are having children for selfish reasons. But the venom is baffling to me - do you honestly think the world would be better off without children? If not, how do you justify the superiority all over the posts on that board and the mocking people who have chosen to have children, why not just be pleased that they've done it so you don't have to and get on with your day? Why go out looking on parenting forums for things to abuse?

"it appears they've had pretty brutal payback a thousand fold."

This thread is pretty polite compared to some of the things that were said over there (no one has refered to anyone elses loved one as a cunt maggot here, or wished for anyone to be raped for example). And when I had a glance at the board (before this thread kicked off) and over half the main section was taken up with threads about how stupid people were on "moosnet" so they're still up on volume as well, we just have one thread going here.

YANBU. The language and deliberate offensiveness is indicative of mental illness in some form. So yes, probably they are sick.

YABU to let it get to you, though. Why waste your time?

She's on facebook playin crap again

7 months old

What???

What's with all the zombie threads?