to be fed up of people using Aspergers as an excuse

[SomeGuy]

Just reading DM (yes, IABU, I know), story about some bloke who got into a facebook tiff and sued for libel:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298010/Facebook-libel-Law-student-dubbed-paedophile-wins-10-000-li bel-damages.html

'Jeremiah Barber posted an indecent image of children on Raymond Bryce's page on the social networking website along with the comment: 'Ray, you like kids and you are gay so I bet you love this picture, Ha ha'.

The image, which hundreds of users could see, showed Mr Bryce superimposed on to a collage of pornographic pictures.

It was 'tagged' with Mr Bryce's name, allowing his 800 friends on the site to see it.

His victim, who is now a law student, pursued the civil claim against his former school friend and was awarded £10,000 at the High Court yesterday for the stress and anxiety the incident caused him.'

'Mr Bryce, 24, who lives with his parents in Stone, Staffordshire, suffers from high functioning Asperger's Syndrome, but has secured a place on a full time degree course studying law at Stafford University.'

So in other words he's intelligent and successful and has lots of friends. So why should we care that he 'suffers' from Aspergers? It doesn't make the libel any worse, or make him more of a victim.

Here's another story, from Friday:

www.thisiskent.co.uk/tunbridgewells/Asperger-sufferer-admits-cash-card-theft-friend/article-2442184- detail/article.html

'Sevenoaks Magistrates' Court heard on Friday how 22-year-old Michael Funnell, of Addison Road, invited a group of friends around to his house for a party on March 6.

He took their coats to hang them up and when Steve Goodwin's back was turned, took his bank card, before withdrawing £120 from a cash point.

He had memorised his friend's PIN when with him a couple of days before.

Brian Ferris, defending, said: "I am told my client has Asperger's syndrome. He can offer no explanation as to why he steals in this way."'

You wouldn't get them saying 'I am told thay my client doesn't have a very good job, because he is not very bright.'

Another story from today:

www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/news/Spared-prison-camera-showers/article-2442265-detail/article.html

' A MINISTRY of Defence manager who set up covert cameras to watch naked men in the showers has been spared jail.

Hensman, who suffers from Asperger's Syndrome, was working as network manager in communications and systems at the MoD police HQ in Wethersfield when he was accused of voyeurism.

Judge Anthony Goldstaub QC told him: "You were originally prosecuted for sexual offences [voyeurism] but because of your psychiatric makeup these charges were dropped.

"In February 2006 you set up some sort of video recording equipment which recorded movements of people coming in and out of the showers, involving some images of naked males' private parts.

"You were doing it because of your psychiatric condition."

Asperger's is an autism disorder characterised by social interaction problems.

Judge Goldstaub said that people have to "accommodate" others with psychiatric disorders and be "tolerant", adding "it's not their fault".'

It seems to be a popular plea for people accused of child pornography offences:

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/2031606.indecent_images_man_avoids_jail/

'A BARMAN who was caught with more than 900 indecent images of children has been spared jail.

Southwark Crown Court heard because Jonathan Bristow had Asperger's syndrome he could act on impulse and become obsessive about collecting things.'

I'm quite aware that some people are severely affected, I don't think it's reasonable however for responsible adults to say 'it was the Asperger's wot dunnit' when they've been caught filming people or buying child porn.

someguy - you are spectacularly missing the point.

it has been mentioned several times on this thread, that it is entirely possible that the reason the man was filming had nothing to do with the changing rooms or the people in them (naked or otherwise). the filming could easily have been for an enirely innocent (to the person with AS) reason - light switches, door knobs, the way people open doors, whether peopl come through doors with left or right foot first, etc.

can you not see, then, how the AS is a mitigating factor in this? how the AS has caused a compulsion (and please try to understand involuntary compulsions. my dd suffers with a number of them, as do other posters' children. we have explained them over and over again), and the result of the compulsion is a crime (albeit one maybe not committed with criminal intent)

this is not "using AS as an excuse". it is asking for a serious condition to be taken into account as a mitigating factor. it isn't someone expecting to go through life saying "oh, sorry, I have AS" whenever they do something wrong.

Oh I think you are really clutching at straws with your argument now, aren't you, Someguy? Do you think that only people with Aspergers ever get anything about themselves mentioned in mitigation for sentence? It's clearly a nonsense to pick out people with Aspergers here. If you look at any trial in the UK, there is ALWAYS some kind of mitigation offered. The fact that you had to desperately trawl for ancient crimes on obscure websites shows how unusual these cases are, yet you seem to believe that they show some terrible universal pattern of behaviour exclusive to autistics (who are always bad, reprehensible, immoral etc even if they have done absolutely nothing wrong and been the victim of a frightening wrong themselves).
Frankly, and I don't say this lightly, I feel sorry for your son.

Actually it was three cases from the last week - it's clearly being raised a lot.

No it wasn't. The last case was from 2008 and the filming incident (a one off according to the report) happened in 2006. Pathetic.

Really op. Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you have some genuine lack of sense to quote by way of mitigation.

I am a reasonable pewrson. If you are in fact just as much of a wanker as you seem I will make allowances

Oh for goodness sake you are quite ridiculous "Tuesday, July 27, 2010",

That is the day before yesterday. The fact that he first setup the filming equipment in 2006 (it doesn't say how long it continued for) is irrelevant to the fact that a CURRENT court case involves a voyeur saying 'it was the Aspergers wot dunnit'.

Pathetic.

For the hard of reading:

Indecent images man avoids jail
4:17pm Friday 8th February 2008

You know, more than two years ago.

ColdComfortFarm - if you don't work as a proof reader, you should!

Given the way my typing collapses under stress, I wouldn't like to be proof read too closely!

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

You said that the filming incident took place in 2006, I pointed out that it is a current (July 2010) trial, and you respond by copying and pasting the date from a completely differerent case.

As I said 'it was three cases from the last week'. For the hard of reading, there are FOUR cases mentioned in my OP.

I imagine Someguy is furiously googling at the moment, but I think I will leave him to it, and really and honestly hope he develops a better level of understanding, or has a kind and open-minded partner who can give their son support and understanding in future.
And you know, with one in 100 boys being diagnosed with an ASD, it really isn't surprising that some of them end up on the wrong side of the law. Given that Aspergers is a condition that affects relationships, understanding of other people and tends to make people obsessive, impulsive and unable to judge consequences, it is likely that some will end up in trouble at least in part because of their condition. But I suspect that many more will end up the victims of 'normal' people's cruelty and manipulation and lack of understanding.

I really don't forsee myself developing any kind of 'understanding' for people who claim that they downloaded child porn because they had Aspergers.

Understanding for people making rude and insensite comments, yes, but I draw the line at child abuse.

Sorry.

Yes, dear, that's what we've all been suggesting you do, isn't it? Lots of support for child abusers on this thread....absolutely nowhere. But don't let that get in the way of your ridiculous sweeping statements, even when they've been proved to be wrong.

and once more you ignore what has been said or suggested, to continue with your generalisations, someguy.

do carry on with your blinkered view of everything, it must be so nice to live such a comfortable life, where everyhting is black and white.

Someguy do you still not understand how a legal trial works? Or the role of barristers?

SomeGuy, I do wonder, if your thinking is so concrete and things are so black and white for you, if you yourself, are on the autistic spectrum.
Aspergers syndrome, is not a "get out of jail free card." It is however, an explanation of an individuals difficulties with a triad of impairments, an explanation that their view of the world is NOT the same as ours. A person with Aspergers perception of a situation can be vastly different from ours-even if both are experiencing the same thing.
If you believe otherwise, then why have your ds dx? It must be obvious to you, from your ds, that some of his behaviours, no matter how you may dislike them, and whatever sanctions are put in place, are inherent to him, and he is unable to change them.
Mental illness is not tangible, but never-the-less exists. It is not just Psychosis or Schizophrenia, but varies in its severity. By its very nature though, it affects the brain function and in turn, how an individual copes with and understands the world and socially accepted norms around them.
I hope you are never in the position of your ds being on the "wrong side of the law", and on one hand, perhaps knowing he has done wrong, but not understanding why, or being able to forsee the consequences of his actions.
There sometimes has to be mitigating circumstances as to why a person does something-NOT an excuse, but an explanation.
If a dc is brought up in chaos and violence, iit is not hard to see why they may act in an inappropriate way at some point. One must have in the beginning, some grounding/ boundaries, or the inherent ability to understand right from wrong and how your actions will affect another person.

the first story is nothing about him havings AS, its about his name being slurred. i also read into that, that having AS meant he may not have taken it as a joke like others may have done because As is a social impairment and some ppl with AS do not understand jokes

as for the rest, it is an excuse. at the end of the day each child right from the very beginning should be taught right from wrong and no matter what, there are ways to teach each and every child

my son has autism, in years to come he will be diagnosed as having AS. but he knows right from wrong now. when he was being bullied at preschool, as a last resort i told him to hit that other little shit back but he wouldn't because he has always been told not to hit

"no matter what, there are ways to teach each and every child"

Err oh no there aren't.

Er but your child understands 'hit the child back', mine (aged 11) wouldn't understand that sentence. He doesn't understand the word 'hit' or the word 'that' or even 'child' and how do you explain the concept of 'back'. I think he understands 'back' as in place on the body. But I'm not sure.

What 'ways' would you use to teach my child? Never mind right or wrong- anything? Without language. Or perhaps care & supervision would be more appropriate?

Honestly what a ridiculous post.

so sick of this " my child has ASD and understands, so all others should" mentality.

Oh hello again fanjo. I think we are wearing magnets pulling us to 'most idiotic posts of the day'.

Yes, we are fighting the good fight About to have to give up and go to bed though, it's exhausting!!

I think I have said 'autism isn't one condition' about 1000 times so far this year. :rolls eyes:

It's just so depressing when even parents with children with ASD don't understand