to be fed up of people using Aspergers as an excuse

[SomeGuy]

Just reading DM (yes, IABU, I know), story about some bloke who got into a facebook tiff and sued for libel:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298010/Facebook-libel-Law-student-dubbed-paedophile-wins-10-000-li bel-damages.html

'Jeremiah Barber posted an indecent image of children on Raymond Bryce's page on the social networking website along with the comment: 'Ray, you like kids and you are gay so I bet you love this picture, Ha ha'.

The image, which hundreds of users could see, showed Mr Bryce superimposed on to a collage of pornographic pictures.

It was 'tagged' with Mr Bryce's name, allowing his 800 friends on the site to see it.

His victim, who is now a law student, pursued the civil claim against his former school friend and was awarded £10,000 at the High Court yesterday for the stress and anxiety the incident caused him.'

'Mr Bryce, 24, who lives with his parents in Stone, Staffordshire, suffers from high functioning Asperger's Syndrome, but has secured a place on a full time degree course studying law at Stafford University.'

So in other words he's intelligent and successful and has lots of friends. So why should we care that he 'suffers' from Aspergers? It doesn't make the libel any worse, or make him more of a victim.

Here's another story, from Friday:

www.thisiskent.co.uk/tunbridgewells/Asperger-sufferer-admits-cash-card-theft-friend/article-2442184- detail/article.html

'Sevenoaks Magistrates' Court heard on Friday how 22-year-old Michael Funnell, of Addison Road, invited a group of friends around to his house for a party on March 6.

He took their coats to hang them up and when Steve Goodwin's back was turned, took his bank card, before withdrawing £120 from a cash point.

He had memorised his friend's PIN when with him a couple of days before.

Brian Ferris, defending, said: "I am told my client has Asperger's syndrome. He can offer no explanation as to why he steals in this way."'

You wouldn't get them saying 'I am told thay my client doesn't have a very good job, because he is not very bright.'

Another story from today:

www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/news/Spared-prison-camera-showers/article-2442265-detail/article.html

' A MINISTRY of Defence manager who set up covert cameras to watch naked men in the showers has been spared jail.

Hensman, who suffers from Asperger's Syndrome, was working as network manager in communications and systems at the MoD police HQ in Wethersfield when he was accused of voyeurism.

Judge Anthony Goldstaub QC told him: "You were originally prosecuted for sexual offences [voyeurism] but because of your psychiatric makeup these charges were dropped.

"In February 2006 you set up some sort of video recording equipment which recorded movements of people coming in and out of the showers, involving some images of naked males' private parts.

"You were doing it because of your psychiatric condition."

Asperger's is an autism disorder characterised by social interaction problems.

Judge Goldstaub said that people have to "accommodate" others with psychiatric disorders and be "tolerant", adding "it's not their fault".'

It seems to be a popular plea for people accused of child pornography offences:

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/2031606.indecent_images_man_avoids_jail/

'A BARMAN who was caught with more than 900 indecent images of children has been spared jail.

Southwark Crown Court heard because Jonathan Bristow had Asperger's syndrome he could act on impulse and become obsessive about collecting things.'

'
HFA- average (60 or 80 points common) plus triad and speech delay at 3 (possibly resolved by time of presentation)sensory issues common
'

Should read Average IQ- the basis which that is set at seems to vary now, between 60 and 80.

Lets pray the NICE regs tighten things up a bit! The only person on tehe committee I know (through Uni) is someone I admire and trust which is hopeful, someone whoa ctively donates time to the adult dx and tertiary dx team so gets to see the variations of ASD.

SWC just remember that for everyone who posts crud on here there are another ten lurking and learning

That's why I keep going with it all: some people don't want to know, but some do and it's great then that the info is in the mainstream for them to access.

Esp. with so many kids having an ASD (and no, Someguy etc, there isn't a rise as such- a study into adults with asd and people in care showed that the prevalaence rates were constant, just the asd's were better differentiated now)

Actually, some of you on here seem very knowledgeable and experienced in this. Can I please ask for some help and guidance on where to look for GOOD info on HFA / AS (I know they're not interchangeable, but I am wating to be as informed as possible before we launch on our journey in september with ds)

The last article - the barman who had indecent images of children should have been "jailed" or at least sent to a secure hospital. Because he had AS , does not excuse this.The nature of the crime was severe and he would have known it was wrong.A LFA would perhaps not understand what they had done in the same way.Aspergers people are intellegent.

If i understand this right...?
The rest of the op`s post was perhaps saying that asds sre sometimes used to gain too much sympathy ?

since when was bullying an already vunerable group ok?.

... this is the world my dd4 lives in.

My DS has Aspergers but I really do not want him to use it as an excuse. In fact our mantra is "It's a signpost, not an excuse". Haven't read all the posts but I do think it is important that we try to teach our children that they cannot get away with everything just because they have a disability. He certainly doesn't at school, and I don't see why he should in the wider world.

i just love the being physically ill and crying daily part of the dx process-as for being shunned at nursery,judged and my child ignoring me -how trendy!

Thank you maryz, I shall hunt that out.

OP makes me so frightened for what my asd ds may face when he reaches adulthood and I may not be around to protect him - I just hope and pray that society moves on (pretty bloody sharpish, as ds is 13 now), and these appalling attitudes are outlawed

3Trees, the national autistic society website has some fairly good info (very easy to google them).

Starlight, yup. Lost count of how many time I've reacted like a scared young girl to things, when people 'expect' me to act in keeping with my age. I can't. That's the 'disability' element of it. I don't get a choice - sometimes I really can't override the way my brain is wired and designed. And sometimes I can, but it takes year after year after year...and the faltering efforts I make to get it right were mostly laughed at. Sort of like laughing at a two year old for falling off a bike and getting hurt.

Getting a diagnosis was a huge relief for me purely because I knew that I really did have a reason for behaving just like someone on the autism spectrum. And it allowed me to try new ways to learn and new ways to recover from stressful things. But tell someone you're on the autism spectrum and the reaction is not joy.

People don't do it for fashion or fun, they really don't.

And I really really hate autism being equated or lined up in any way with paedophile behaviour. If there's around a million people on the autism spectrum in the UK and a tiny handful have committed such awful offences, it is deeply unfair that this becomes the public focus rather than the other 999,000 of us who are probably doing all we can to live well and learn respectful ways of being in society (within our limits). It's like saying all wheelchair users may be paedophiles, or all black people, or all deaf people, or all men. There isn't a link.

In the average population, 1 in 200 is a paedophile on police statistics. Seems we're safer on average than 'ordinary people' on that basis.

Second Amber's recommendation for the NAS: laods of info on tehre.

WRT to Droves no being intelligent doesn't necessarily mean someone gets it (and be aware that people with AS are not necessarily intelligent; some places operate a functional IQ limit of 65 for a dx of learning difficulties and LFA: you cannot reasonably say someone with a functional IQ of 66 is intelligent by any stretch!)
It's hard to explain but it's about understanding. There are foten massive gaps in the udnerstanding of someone with AS. DS1 doesn't get cause and effect at 10, simply doesn't, much in the way I don't 'get' Nietsche, it may as well be in a diffeent langauge (and to show how hidden thatc an be I managed a B in a Uni essay on Nietsche but still cannot grasp it LOL- learnedd does not mean understood or processed)

he doesn't get that if someoone knocks him by accident in the playground it is in any way different to someone thumping him deliberately. For him, 1+1 unavoidably make 2 and there are no areas in between.

He undertands lanngauge well but still may as well speak a different one to many people: no sarcasm , sahdes of grey, completely literal: there's an intersting report her has from his SALT assessment aged 6 where they pointed out clear semnatic pragmatic traits (but never follwoed up due to cost) and an enntire conversation turns into a monologue along the lines of 'What sandwiches do you like ds1' ;I like cheese, and cheese* and pickle' 'Oh I like cheese and onion' '

IMA you are fo course right that we must contin ue to teach and work towards the goals but it does take far longer

There are areas in which ds1 hasn't got teh emotional maturity developed yet to act even as a three year old may, such as in the playground. We work on it constantly- I am not doing teh MA for fun!!- but in the emantime it takes a team of TA's and a statement to keep him from hurting other children and that's important too. Whilst we work on one the other must be in palce.

I equate it with my 2 year old: daily we walk up and down stairs teaching him to be safe, but it would be damned right foolish to remove the stargate now becuase he isn;t safe yet. Scaffolding, I think the profs call it.

NAS website here I come.
Thanks guys.
Some days, I think "what are these teaching people talking about, he's fine" and others, like today, I wonder if we will ever get past the time obsessing, and the meltdowns when the routine doesn't QUITE work out - honestly, if something is just ONE minute late, and constamt need to stop him closing gates (we walk past a lot of gates and they all HAVE to be closed, he cannot walk past one and leave it open.) the continual asking strangers what number house they live at (HE NEEDS to know this about EVERYONE)and the spelling, endless requests to spell things.

I would like to point out that non-custodial sentences for possessing indecent images of children are common, actually, and certainly not limited to this single, rather old case. We have no idea if the man's autism was taken into account when the judge was sentencing him.
I suspect this rather more recent murder case won't arouse much outrage. In fact, I expect the OP will be popping up to say how unfair it is to mention that this murder victim had Aspergers, and to accuse him of milking his condition from beyond the grave

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-jailed-for-life-killing-aspergers-sufferering-neighbour-1975 479.html

Amber & others - I think the indecent images thing almost invariably crops up in discussions like this, because the nature of the offences provokes a powerful disgust reaction in most people. It is true that Aspie obssessiveness has successfully explained over-the-top porn collections in many cases, including cases where the charge is not pursued through the courts because of police understanding of the disability. I know this from real-life experience (I'm not a porn collector!)

I consider it useful for people to know about this, precisely because of the disgust associated with porn-related behaviours. When an Aspie man comes into contact with pornography, and discovers it's an "approved" hobby amongst other young men, it can then become his obssession. He won't have thought it through like an NT person and may actually be incapable of making connections between the existence of these images and harm being done to other people. Plus, as the judge in that case remarked, he won't be using his collection the same way as his NT pals.

I'm not quite sure whether this post has clarified anything for anyone, but still.
Starlight - your 3yo / 30yo post, above, highlights the issues very well I think.

Good post grace

Nobody said anyone here was trying to be 'trendy' made their children up etc.....

I know how hard the dx process can be for some and how easy it can be for others. It appears to be a lottery postcode. Different areas do the process differently. In my area there is no centre you take your child to for sessions to be watched. You see different 'professionals'and ultimately the Paed makes the final decision based on a few visits, a survey and a couple of reports.

So with that in mind, it would be easy to convince yourself by googling and then convince someone else and get the dx.
There are parents out there that would do this. I have read on other forums that they are convinced their child is on the spectrum but everyone else says no, but they will not leave it and are totally convinced.

Yes this would be rare, but could happen.

I know as a parent myself of a child with ASD I would be horrified to know anyone that had done this to their child, it is cruel but it could happen.