to be fed up of people using Aspergers as an excuse

[SomeGuy]

Just reading DM (yes, IABU, I know), story about some bloke who got into a facebook tiff and sued for libel:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298010/Facebook-libel-Law-student-dubbed-paedophile-wins-10-000-li bel-damages.html

'Jeremiah Barber posted an indecent image of children on Raymond Bryce's page on the social networking website along with the comment: 'Ray, you like kids and you are gay so I bet you love this picture, Ha ha'.

The image, which hundreds of users could see, showed Mr Bryce superimposed on to a collage of pornographic pictures.

It was 'tagged' with Mr Bryce's name, allowing his 800 friends on the site to see it.

His victim, who is now a law student, pursued the civil claim against his former school friend and was awarded £10,000 at the High Court yesterday for the stress and anxiety the incident caused him.'

'Mr Bryce, 24, who lives with his parents in Stone, Staffordshire, suffers from high functioning Asperger's Syndrome, but has secured a place on a full time degree course studying law at Stafford University.'

So in other words he's intelligent and successful and has lots of friends. So why should we care that he 'suffers' from Aspergers? It doesn't make the libel any worse, or make him more of a victim.

Here's another story, from Friday:

www.thisiskent.co.uk/tunbridgewells/Asperger-sufferer-admits-cash-card-theft-friend/article-2442184- detail/article.html

'Sevenoaks Magistrates' Court heard on Friday how 22-year-old Michael Funnell, of Addison Road, invited a group of friends around to his house for a party on March 6.

He took their coats to hang them up and when Steve Goodwin's back was turned, took his bank card, before withdrawing £120 from a cash point.

He had memorised his friend's PIN when with him a couple of days before.

Brian Ferris, defending, said: "I am told my client has Asperger's syndrome. He can offer no explanation as to why he steals in this way."'

You wouldn't get them saying 'I am told thay my client doesn't have a very good job, because he is not very bright.'

Another story from today:

www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/news/Spared-prison-camera-showers/article-2442265-detail/article.html

' A MINISTRY of Defence manager who set up covert cameras to watch naked men in the showers has been spared jail.

Hensman, who suffers from Asperger's Syndrome, was working as network manager in communications and systems at the MoD police HQ in Wethersfield when he was accused of voyeurism.

Judge Anthony Goldstaub QC told him: "You were originally prosecuted for sexual offences [voyeurism] but because of your psychiatric makeup these charges were dropped.

"In February 2006 you set up some sort of video recording equipment which recorded movements of people coming in and out of the showers, involving some images of naked males' private parts.

"You were doing it because of your psychiatric condition."

Asperger's is an autism disorder characterised by social interaction problems.

Judge Goldstaub said that people have to "accommodate" others with psychiatric disorders and be "tolerant", adding "it's not their fault".'

It seems to be a popular plea for people accused of child pornography offences:

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/2031606.indecent_images_man_avoids_jail/

'A BARMAN who was caught with more than 900 indecent images of children has been spared jail.

Southwark Crown Court heard because Jonathan Bristow had Asperger's syndrome he could act on impulse and become obsessive about collecting things.'

Putting the legal aspects aside for a momemtn, my personal experience is that people I know with children with ASDs and adhd etc are utterly exhausted with the effort of constantly correcting and disciplining their children. They often feel guilty that their children with developmental differences are told off much more often than their regular-issue siblings.

This thread is so incredibly depressing if it shows that the general attitude towards people on the autistic spectrum is that they're a bunch of whingers with criminal tendencies who should put and shut up about their rights, or lack of.

Yes that happens to my son, which can be rather embarrassing, and I do hope people make some allowances for him, but I also don't expect him to be able to get away with murder (figuratively or literally).

No one expects anyone with ASD to get away with anything. But the justice system should be allowed to consider it as a factor when determining punishment.

That is 'making allowances for' - which apparently you want people to make for your son.

Is it going to be you who chooses when allowances are made. Because I would rather that you leave it to the legal system. They tend to rely slightly less on the Daily mail and generalised arrogance

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FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 28-Jul-10 17:55:46
That is just so un-understanding of ASD and ADHD.

Fanjo, I have plenty of understanding thank you, unlike the childs father who takes him off his meds and smacks him round the head when he goes hyper.
This boy has been DS2s friend since reception and hardlly any of the other children play with him he is not invited to party's or play dates as the other parents deem him too difficult, in fact he is a lovely boy and as long as you know what he can and cant be in total control over there is no problem.

My DS1 is in the asperger's mix and as an added bonus has Tourettes, he would still be in no end of trouble though if he told someone to fuck off as that (thankfully) is not a symptom of his Tourettes, and both he and I know that.

But Runaway , what about the child for whom fuck off is a manifestation of their aspergers. Should that not be taken into account ?

What I am saying is that a child with aspergers should be told that fuck off is not acceotable and punished. But if the fuck off is the result of a behaviour or obsession then that should be regarded differently from when my DS1 who is NT uses fuck off.

Just because that is not part of your childs ASD does not mean it is never part of someone elses.

My DS2 pinches. It is sometimes defensive and often a stim. Are you really suggesting that his pinching is exactly the same as an average 14 year old who simply choses to pinch? That because your child does not pinch then when I attribute my sons pinching to asd then I am making excuses?

Someone with an ASD might film naked people for all sorts of reasons other than sexual gratification. If my son could use a camera he might video or photograph someone naked if they happened to be standing in front of an interesting lightswitch, shutters, washing machine or toilet. He wouldn't even notice thf baked person.

He sniffs people's arses if given half the chance - for the same reason he sticks his head in dustbins - he's very sensory seeking when it comes to smells. Obviously these are unwanted behaviours and we work on them but there's nothing sexual in them and there's no intention to do anyone harm. He does need appropriate supervision though.

Luckily for ds1 he should be able to access that 24 hours a day for thecrest of his life - as is appropriate for him - someone high functioning needing some guidance/supervision is highly unlikely to be able to access anything appropriate. So they end up in trouble and present mitigation.

As I'm on iPod I hadn't read the cases but stunned that someone whose been bullied all his life is being used as an example of someone whinging.

As to th OP's assertion that Mr Bryce's Asperger's doesn't make him more of a victim-guess what ? It does ! Do you want to know why ? Well, as a very-proud-to-be Aspie, I'll tell you why. Whenever one of us experiences a traumatic event, especially if it's caused by another's cruelty, we NEVER get over it. We relive it constantly. It's called replaying the mental movies. Being falsely accused of being a "paedo" would be hard for anyone to get over, but for an Aspie it's almost impossible. I can promise you that if Mr Bryce lives to be 100, he'll be reliving this, at age 100, as vividly as when it first happened.
I was a crime victim last year. I don't want to go into details, because it's basically destroyed my life. But if they ever catch the bitch who perpetrated the crime, YES, in my victim-impact statement to the court, I WILL milk my Asperger's for all it's worth, because it traumatised me far more immensely than it would for an NT, and, unlike Mr Bryce, I have absolutely no-one in my life to support me. I'm not implying that being a crime victim is not traumatic for an NT, but to those of us on the spectrum, it can totally ruin our lives. My life is a living hell because of the crime.
So you can bet your ASS that, if the monster who victimized me is ever brought to justice, I will milk my Asperger's status to the highest extent, whether Neurobigots approve or not, for justice's-and, admittedly vengeance's sake. If it's called "whinging", so be it.

I meant it has ruined my life, not it's ruined my life.

Haven't read all the thread (bad fuddled) but I agree. My brother went undiagnosed until he was about 16 and Mum said to someone (teachers/ doctor? I'm not sure) "So what is actually wrong with him?" and they said "Probably Aspergers but at his age there's no point looking into it" We'd gone through 12 years of fighting for a diagnosis and was eventually brushed off with that when we'd always known it. He doesn't allow anyone to say he has Aspergers or Autism and he takes responsibility for himself.

I do agree with Helena1964, my brother does take things differently because of it.

RunawayWife - I am confused, I thought he didn't discipline him and thought he put everything down to his ASD/ADHD, but you are saying he takes him off his meds and smacks him.

Anyway, don't feel like falling out on here, got enough going on.

I just would be careful not to judge anyone's parenting of a child with ASD, even if you have a child with AS, they are all very different, and could easily seem to be being "a little shit" as you put it, for some very real reasons for them.

I have no idea if my DS knows right from wrong.
I tell him that certain things are wrong ie. going on the flat roof, throwing things over the garden fence, taking and binging on food etc.

He gets in trouble, he has things explained slowly and clearly, sanctions are put in place, we check with him that he understands what is going on and why, he says he does.

Then he does it all again 10 minutes later.

He is not my only child.He is one of five so I have quite a bit to compare him with.

The way he does things is very, very different. I am not sure I will ever understand. I am dreading him being a teenager. I am stuggling with my NT DS. What on earth will it be like for DS?

Fanjo it is mum who puts it all down to the ADHD dad is just a twat who takes the poor kid of the meds then smacks him for being "bad" (parents not together)
you would think for the sake of this poor little boy they could work together and have ONE routine.

Pag, DS1 does not have the type of Tourettes that means he shouts obscenity I know it he knows it, so if he told someone to fuck off I would not say "oh don't mind him he can't help it" if he quacked like a duck when having his eyes tested in Boots I would explain to the ophthalmologist that this is part of his tourettes, (and yes this did happen) I am not for one moment saying that another child may have a reason for shouting fuck off at everyone.

What I am saying is there are parents out there who no matter what will try and excuse bad behavior by saying it is part of the child's when it is not.

Don't be stupid someguy. Where has anyone said that aspergers is an excuse for paedophilia? Nowhere, that's where. You are the one who seems to think aspergers makes even victims of crime inherently wicked.

I think what now? The man in the OP is not a victim of crime, he is the subject of a libel, a civil wrong, and in getting his £10k compensation he chose to milk his condition, as if it's somehow worse to tell 800 people you are a paedophile because you have Asperger's.

As for the excuse, the judge said that Asperger's was partly why the man chose to buy large quantities of child abuse images. That is, by any definition, an excuse for paedophilia.

??? My son does have AS.

Yes, I am thinking if your son wouldn't be badly affected by this when he is older he possibly has mild AS?

Anyway even if he wouldn't , others might be, you could bang drums right beside my DD and she wouldn't bat an eyelid but other kids with ASD would cry in distress, everyone is different.