to think that people that have been in the UK for a while DONT need translaters?

[porcamiseria]

I am NOT referring to people that have recently moved here, or have come as aylum seekers.

I also reserve similar vitriol when I see programmes about people who haved moved to Spain and it all goes tits up with their house, and they are there SPEAKING ENGLISH, gah

However yesterday I saw a woman in the maternity waiting room, and she arrived and got immediately greeted by her translater, which obviously the NHS are providing

She had a toddler with her, and I overheard the translater say this was her second birth at the hospital in question

so why the fuck has she not learnt English since then? she was nicely dressed etc, so in no way was she destitute

I told DP and he told me to "stop being so English" but I think that people whoever they are should learn the bloody language if they want to make a life and family here

anyway I am going to get flamed now....

Agree - but the british have such a long and history of going to other countries and behaving badly (from india/africa in the past to more recently spain and the stag weekend cities) we deserve a bit of our own medicine IMO.

You are completely right, though.

It's really hard to learn a new language as an adult, from what I know.

maybe they find it difficult to learn? her toddler may not be that old so for eg if its a 2 yr old, she's been her max 3 years say.. could you get fluent in another language when busy with a baby, toddler and pregnant etc, she may be trying but not yet able to cope with all the medical terms or something like that
i wouldnt begrudge them it at all
anyway it makes it easier if they have the translators than just trying to go it alone when they dont speak english properly, ive been in hospital before (maternity) and people come ask me do i speak arabic can i help them, because they dont speak english properly, and once the lady didnt even have the right info @ all i dont think she was even in the right hospital, so felt quite sorry for her
i think there are more important things to be outraged about than a translator tbh.

Maybe she is trying to learn the language but is struggling? Or maybe she is isolated, her husband working all day, a small child at home and pregnant again, with not many opportunities to practice her English? Maybe she is here with her husband on business, and she plans to go back eventually and just doesn't have a very strong desire to learn the language perfectly? There could be many reasons she can't speak English.

I agree that anyone planning to live here in the long term needs to learn the language, but I wouldnt judge someone based on a glimpse of their life in a waiting room.

agree to a certain extent.

she should be learning enough of the language to get by here, but she might have had a learning difficulty which makes it hard to learn languages.

or maybe she doesn't get out much.

yanbu, in general though

agree but I think you'll find there are brits scattered accross the globe who haven't bothered to learn the language of the country they've moved to.......they just expect everyone else to be happy to speak english to them.

YABU of course. In a medical situation it's important the patient knows what's going on. Too risky for the medical staff otherwise and very frightening for the patient. My brother had a serious motorbike accident in Spain and was totally stranded for a while because he had no Spanish and they had no English.

As a wider point, yes, we should be encouraging residents of the UK to learn English so that they can participate fully in society and I think that's happening slowly with citizenship courses etc. Budget cuts are going to mean that some translation services are cut anyway.

I knew of a woman who had a 24 year old daughter who had to accompany her to every doctor's appointment to translate for her as she could not speak a word of English. They had lived here since before the daughter was born.......

I am the daughter of immigrants, who learnt english the yr they arrived here (in 70s). They made every effort to learn the british ways, speak the language, learn the nuances of being british (not easy for feisty mediterraneans!). They never had translatOrs nor extra help, and nor did they ever expect it.

However that doesnt mean i think it is wrong for others to have help. How do you know she speaks no english at all? Perhaps she does and used the interpreter for the more medical terminology etc, in a situation that is not exactly whena woman is at her most relaxed! This way she can guarantee her voice gets heard without worrying about her vocabulary! Her contact with the english language could also depend on her homelife. Does she have the sort of husband who doesnt let her out, mixing with locals etc? Therefore limiting her chance to learn?

I think it is risky to judge on first appearance with something like this. I lived in France and learned the language, but i tell you i still got tongue tied at the doctors cos i just couldnt express how i felt in the same fluency as i can in english...

It's one thing learning basic every day words in a different language but a lot harder to learn more unusual words needed for pregnancy, birth matters etc especially if there are any complications.

I agree.

And I speak as an immigrant.

My grandmother is in her 80s. She came to the UK in her 40s. She does not speak English and so her children have to help her with everything and she had led a very sheltered and isolated life.

The next generation (I am the oldest of many grandchildren) were not encouraged to learn the old language - so none of us can properly converse with her.

Had it been compulsory for her to learn English when she immigrated - she would not be in the situation she is in.

I think it is very sad indeed.

It's hard to comment when, I'm a citizen of a country where people go to a Tapas Bar in Tenerife and point at a photograph of egg and chips with a Sovereign ring clad finger because they can't be bothered to learn the Spanish words for Egg and chips.

So...

So much depends on family pressures (yes I am generalising here, but have experience of these things). Some women are only allowed out of the house for limited activities, which may not include language learning, depending on their husbands'ideas on what is suitable for them. Other people are immersed in their communities and find they can get by with only basic English, similar to many of our compatriots who relocate to other countries. Also provision of ESOL classes have been cut in recent years.
So, there are many reasons, and of course people should learn the language of the place they end up living otherwise it's isolating for them, but they don't always have much of a choice if, say, they don't have a lot of money and are in a controlling family environment.

Well I spent 2 1/2yrs trying desperately to learn Shona when I lived in Zimbabwe. My colleagues and friends (and later on my IL's) would speak in Shona to me all the time to try and help me.

Even after we left Zimbabwe my older 2 SIL's would speak to me in Shona on the phone........until just before DS1 born my oldest SIL said to me

"toccatanfudge - stop torturing yourself - you're never going to get it" - and spoke to me in English every since

God I tried, I had the Shona speaking English teachers trying to help me, I had the Shona teachers trying to help me.

I can (well used to be able to - not really ha it around me for a year or two now) understand quite a lot of shona, but couldn't for the life of me speak or read it.

Thankfully of course in Zimbabwe English and Shona are both spoken as official languages, so I would have survived had we stayed over there (although family gatherings with the older relatives were always conducted in Shona). However had English not been one of the official languages and we'd stayed there I could imagine that I would have ended up like the woman who's 24yr old DD translated for her............

huevos y fritas?

I know I know.....It pisses me off too....

But I think by providing stuff like this we create a culture where people never bother to learn.If we are , across the EU, going to have a mass surge in immigration we must create a culture where we learn the language of where we plan to live, and make it MANDATORY

Cometessa - But .... if it was compulsory to learn English then the controlling family would have no choice but to allow the woman to go for English lessons.

I know that had it been compulsory in the 60s and 70s then my grandmother may not have spent the last 40 years of her life watching foreign TV on the satellite telly (and doing nothing else at all except cooking and cleaning her flat).

We are a country spend huge amounts on translation services. The money should be re-directed to English Language teaching

Somehow if the woman was deaf or blind would you have the same level of vitriol???

Perhaps she needs someone who can help her better explain and understand the medical jargon. Perhaps she does know enough English to get by, but not enough to be comfortable in a medical environment...

When I was in hospital with DD3 in SCBU, there was a young, frightened Polish girl with her baby in my bay. Her DP/H spent every waking moment with her, as she was scared and didn't speak fantastic English - his English was pretty good.

However, when the medical staff needed to explain something very important about their baby's health, a translator was brought in in order that the staff could be absolutely sure the parents had understood what the doctor was saying. Perhaps this lady was in a similar situation - she was there for a critical appointment and they wanted to be sure she got the information right, even if she has good-enough English for everyday situations.

It's very very difficult to understand medical terms in other languages and not many books can translate things like caeserean/breach etc. You don't know the nhs paid for the translator, you were very judgemental- I expect whenever you go on holiday you know the exact correct phrase for every possible eventuality, I think you're husband insulted the English by calling you that. He should have called you a nosy cow who should keep her beak out.

My friend works as a midwife in the ante natal clinic in a large hospital.

She was telling me how much money is wasted in the NHS because of translators - for example a woman who needs a translator who has to travel 100 miles for the hospital appointment - then the patient doesn't show up for the appointment.

You mention a woman who had her first child at the hospital - my friend has a patient who is having her sixth child and still needs an interpreter.

I know Brits abroad are a disgrace but do the other countries actually provide interpreters?

It wouldn't happen in the USA - and funnily enough the immigrants there learn the language a lot faster than they do here.

My friend was saying if you have a Polish woman who can't speak English at the start of her pregnancy, she can always speak it by the end, but other nationalities are not as willing to learn.

Somehow if the woman was deaf or blind would you have the same level of vitriol???"

Thats silly, people have no choice about being deaf or blind

people CAN learn a language, esp if they have been here for some time

not even comparable

YABU to say that they DON'T need a translator - but less so to think that they shouldn't need one. However, as others have pointed out, it isn't always that easy to learn a new language as an adult and it is desperately important that they understand the medical issues so overall YAstillBU in this instance.

I agree with coraltoes. Just because she has a translator with her doesn't mean she speaks no English at all - just that she doesn't feel confident enough to converse in English with the vocab you need to get by in that situation. And a medical situation is important - it's not enough sometimes to have the gist of what is said - you have to understand every word because it could be incredibly risky otherwise, either for the woman involved or her baby.

It's an incredibly slow process learning a foreign language - it's not a matter of suddenly 'acquiring' it and then you can survive in any situation.

When my DH was rushed to hospital in France there was no Translator available.

Are there any other countries apart from the UK that provide state funded translators?

don't forget also to be able for them to learn English they need to be able to read and write...........many woman may well come to this country illiterate in their mother tongue - only being able to speak it, and perhaps if they're lucky write very basic things in it.

I'm just crap at languages (did ok at school with German - but that's because a lot of it was like English/Scottish terms ) - but imagine that you couldn't read or write English......and you wanted to learn a foreign language. "Conversational" English wouldn't really equip you for a medical appointment