to think that people that have been in the UK for a while DONT need translaters?

[porcamiseria]

I am NOT referring to people that have recently moved here, or have come as aylum seekers.

I also reserve similar vitriol when I see programmes about people who haved moved to Spain and it all goes tits up with their house, and they are there SPEAKING ENGLISH, gah

However yesterday I saw a woman in the maternity waiting room, and she arrived and got immediately greeted by her translater, which obviously the NHS are providing

She had a toddler with her, and I overheard the translater say this was her second birth at the hospital in question

so why the fuck has she not learnt English since then? she was nicely dressed etc, so in no way was she destitute

I told DP and he told me to "stop being so English" but I think that people whoever they are should learn the bloody language if they want to make a life and family here

anyway I am going to get flamed now....

Completely agree, we always learn holiday Spanish/FRench/chinese or whatever when we go abroad and wouldn't think of assuming that everyone speaks English.

I don't understand why children get translators either, a little Spanish boy who grew up in Italy recently joined my sons school and just fit in and learnt the language, if he were an asylum seeker or non Euro he would have got much more, expensive, help.

I think whatever the circumstances that bring you to this country you should learn English, either funded by the state and part of your asylum agreement or paid for privately/.

I can understand why the woman would want to use a translator as it can be difficult to learn a language to sufficiently fluent levels to handle medical issues, even after some years in a country. I agree with the OP, however, in that I don't see why the government should provide a translator for her (if they did). Most people living abroad manage the language barrier on their own steam either through immigrant or expat support groups or friends or whatever.

From my experience of living abroad, you're just expected to speak the language in most countries. If you can't, you just bring a friend along who can translate for you or you try to find an English-speaking doctor / service by yourself. This is what I used to do to manage when I lived in Brussels for a short time and only spoke schooldays French. Going to the doctors or dentists was always something difficult as it's so hard to explain symptoms and obviously you don't want to get anything wrong! It's a bit too interventionist and nannying, I think, to provide state-funded translators (except maybe for asylum-seekers). Why live abroad at all if you can't be resourceful enough to manage day-to-day life yourself somehow?

"Now, you must leave the surgery please, I has other patients to see." Fartytowels (that is probably closer to the actual translation than the first phrase)

"if he were an asylum seeker or non Euro he would have got much more, expensive, help"

...not where we live

I've never heard of this!

I've lived in France and Belgium long term and work in the healthcare sector and can confirm that other EU countries don't provide free interpreters for hospital appointments (or for administrative procedures at the town hall etc.)

You either learn the language, hire an interpreter privately or pay extra to see a doctor who speaks English.

I had a friend who taught at a school where this happened. But now I feel like an idiot because I can find no evidence.....

perhaps I'll have a nose in the DM or BNP website

and when I taught we had to employ a translator for the school reports....

There's a difference between being able to do basic conversational English and being able to have technical medical conversations.

I was hospitalised in France on holiday and while I sort-of managed with my O-level French and a dictionary (managed all the A&E conversations that way) when they wanted to make sure I understood the technical medical stuff that was being explained to me they dug up an English-speaking doctor or nurse from elsewhere in the hospital to come and talk to me.

I suppose I think that if you are living in a country you should do your best to learn the language. But there needs to be some support for those (like toccata) who just can't manage to acquire fluency and for those who can't follow technical medical or legal English.

I WISH everyone could speak good enough English to not need interpreters.

A particular hate of mine is seeing children translate for their parents. Its awful.

But if a person doesnt speak fluent English I would hate to see them struggle at a medical/legal appointment.

I attended meetings with parents and a host of professionals. The dicussions are often complex (even for English nationals) and its vital that the parents know what is going on.

Its impossible without a qualified interpreter. One lovely mum I worked with had great confidence in her English skills. Unfortunately her confidence was a bit misplaced. She refused an interpreter and she missed about 90% of what was going on.

I used to work in an inner city A&E dept. I dont know if things have changed in the last 20 years but we had a list of 'interpreters'. They were nothing of the sort! They were speakers of a certain language who happened to work in the hosptial. Lovely - imagine being a 19 year old with pelvic pain having a middle aged male porter sitting in on your consultation!

Dont get me started on sign language 'interpreters' with level 1 BSL

My degree involved studying law at university in France for a year. Towards the end of that year I had to go to the doctor for something. She asked if I had any gynaecological symptoms, to which I said no. She then said 'I mean for example blah blah blah blah'

I had absolutely no idea what she was on about. Just said no again, but if it were something slightly more medically significant, like giving birth for example, I would have needed help - and that was while functioning in the language well enough to (respectably) pass university exams.

Basically YABU.

I take it OP, that you tried to spark up a conversation with the woman before/after the appt. and she didn't couldn't understand you afterwards, and that's how you know she didn't speak a word of English?

Otherwise, bugger off.

DP and SiL have been here for 10 years and speak wonderful English but still have prblems with the finer points of life which I help them both with. Council forms, medical terms, why we use the word fortnight instead of 2 weeks being a term I explained for SIL today.

DP was with me during the brith, but I'm glad I also had my mum as he wouldn't have been able to comprehend certain terms had it have been an emergency.

Take your judgy pants off and have a

Surely the woman is entitled to the same care as everyone else in the NHS? Which means she is entitled to understand the doctor/midwife as well as a native UK citizen?

So she should be entitled to a free interpreter. How important is it that the doctor/midwife is told by the woman that the baby's movements have decreased? If she cannot speak English how would she convey this information if not through a interpreter.

Pregnancy/mother of a toddler is extremely hard work. Without having to worry about English lessons/understanding the doctor.

One of the other mothers at ds's school works as a Polish translator/interpreter. Her main employers are the NHS and the police.

Interesting to hear that other EU nations expect the patient to provide their own translator or pay to see a doc who speaks their language.

As an aside, apparently the Nazis thought a good way to flush out female spies was to get them up the duff because in childbirth every woman will scream in her native language. But I suspect it wasn't terribly effective given it would take at least nine months...

Aged - she'll get the same level of healthcare as anyone else, the question is should the NHS - taxpayers - pay for a translator. And it's a valid question.

They should give them transformers. Then Optimus Prime would just take whatever they need and they could drive home in a sweet Bugatti which is really an alien robot and nobody would care what language they spoke because they'd be so cool.

kingbeat

But your family dont make the NHS pay for them, they use you! My partner speaks great English but for medical issues I'd always help him out. we would never expect the NHS to stump up!

likewise if I went to my partners country I'd expect HIM to be my guide, not a translater

I know people dont learn languages overnight

But I think the provision of translaters has gone OTT, and its making people lazy

but some disagree with me, fair enough!

but would they get the same level of healthcare as an English speaker if they're unable to understand the questions/articulate the problems properly??

Yes, the NHS should pay for a translator. What if the lady in question could not afford a translator so turned up by herself. How would she convey vital information to the doctor about her pregnancy?

So no translator - unequal care. I don't mind my tax or national insurance spent in this way if it means a better pregnancy outcome for the woman.

Also if we are talking economics, how much would a translator cost compared to a baby spending weeks in NICU or SCBU because the woman had not been able to convey vital information.

My SIL speaks very good English - enough to hold down a job, have a social life and live comfortably in England. But she would most definitley need a translator if she was dealing with anything complex and medical.

And, actually, why the f shouldn't this wonam have a traslator? What business is it of anyone else's?

Should the NHS - taxpayers - pay for the cost of putting right the medical cock-ups that will ensue if medical staff can't understand her or she can't understand their questions? Also a valid question.

So in your brief encounter with this woman you also managed to deduce that she had a partner or other relative who spoke perfect English well enough to cope with technical medical terminology, then, porcamiseria?

at our gp surgery the doctors were providing translators and it was costing a fortune and taking up double the appointment times - they have knocked it on the head now for those reasons.

some people have been really really arsey about it but most are just finding english speaking friends to bring with them.

seeker

then if thats the case she should pay for it herself! or take along a fluent friend

do you really think that the NHS are an endless pit to pay for translaters for people that have jobs, social lives etc! she lives comfortably, in your words....

I can honestly think of worthier causes.

Some NHS trusts will not allow relatives/friends to interpret. This is because of the Victoria Climbie case.

seeker - it's our business if the NHS is paying for it. I'm not quite decided on either side but it's a reasonable question.

Prof, that's a consideration. But isn't there an issue of personal responsibility here? If you are living in a country where you don't speak the language fluently enough to converse with doctors, shouldn't you be responsible for providing your own translator?

My friend the Polish translator told me she felt very uncomfortable translating at a midwife appointment where the midwife told the woman the NHS would not provide a translator in labour. My friend thought this wasn't, in fact, true, but didn't feel able to tell the client.

Definitely need translators for communicable diseases, though. Wouldn't want people spreading TB because they didn't understand how to take the drugs or how long have have to stay on them.

'seeker

then if thats the case she should pay for it herself! or take along a fluent friend

do you really think that the NHS are an endless pit to pay for translaters for people that have jobs, social lives etc! she lives comfortably, in your words....'

what I meant was that even in my SIL's case she would want a translator. So how much more necessary would a traslator be for someone who may not have been in this country long, may be frightened, unsure of how the system works, confused by cultural differences. And probably, like many immigrants, extremely poor.

And what business is it of anyone else's exactly?