to think that people that have been in the UK for a while DONT need translaters?

[porcamiseria]

I am NOT referring to people that have recently moved here, or have come as aylum seekers.

I also reserve similar vitriol when I see programmes about people who haved moved to Spain and it all goes tits up with their house, and they are there SPEAKING ENGLISH, gah

However yesterday I saw a woman in the maternity waiting room, and she arrived and got immediately greeted by her translater, which obviously the NHS are providing

She had a toddler with her, and I overheard the translater say this was her second birth at the hospital in question

so why the fuck has she not learnt English since then? she was nicely dressed etc, so in no way was she destitute

I told DP and he told me to "stop being so English" but I think that people whoever they are should learn the bloody language if they want to make a life and family here

anyway I am going to get flamed now....

aged - how do they stop it? Do they insist on providing professional translators at every appointment? Climbie would only apply to children, surely?

If you are a medical or public service professional trying to explain something complex to somebody (anybody) you want to make damn sure they have properly understood you, and have made informed decisions. Otherwise things can easily come back to bite you on the bum. Interpretors assist with this process and are an invaluable professional tool in this sense.

Informal interpretors can be problematic because you can never be 100% sure that they are interpreting exactly what you are saying, or are being impartial.

I think it's appropriate that interpretors are funded by the organisations that use them. What I'm saying is that the interpretor is not just useful for the patient but for the professional as well.

Totally agree with Seeker.

seeker

In my OP I said I was not referring to asylum seekers. Of course if some poor scared girl comes from Sierra Leone she cant speak English, and should have care in her own language.

I refer to people that have been here for quite some time and have not bothered, this girl was on her second child

Edam - the hospital I work at will only use a professional interpreter. Even if a doctor speaks the language of the patient, a professional interpreter will be used.

So it applies to everyone, not just children.

besom - I know of a case where a surgical team mixed up two patients, both Arab women who were on the same list. One lady had gone to the loo and the person who came to call the next patient assumed it must be the only Arab woman in the waiting room. She got a hysterectomy. Don't know what happened to the other woman who should have had the op. Trust got away with it, as whaddya know, they discovered something during surgery that would have been an indication for a hysterectomy anyway, or so they claimed. Neither woman sued.

YANBU

I agree the NHS are spending a fortune on translation. However I think they probably do need some translation services for higher risk appointments but I think that this is an area that should be cut back and they should do more to encourage immigrants to learn english.

edam I know a deaf woman who got sterilized because there was no interpreter. It was not thought necessary

edam -

The problem with translators not being paid out of the public purse is that there is at least a standard to be a translator, presumably a recognized qualification? I am assuming that there is some sort of regulation, so if people who didn't understand English had to provide their own, then there is the possibility that the translation wouldn't be a good standard and information could literally 'get lost in translation.' When one is dealing with medical and police issues, then it's fairly important that communication is free from misunderstandings.

Perhaps I am confusing providing a translator with paying for one?

OP - what evidence do you have that this woman was too lazy to learn the langauge? Have you ignored everyone who has pointed out that learning technical medical words is not so easy as every day language. Lord knows my english speaking mother struggles sometimes at hospital appointments to take in all that is said to her by people speaking in her own language.

It's not like she was using a translater to do her tescos shop...

YANBU
It's her own fault for not learning complicated medical terms in another language. And if her or her baby suffered because she couldn't understand the information she was given then that would be her fault too. What a waste of NHS money - making sure that the same quality of care is available to all British citizens

Well, I've lived in Britain for 33 years, it's my native tongue, and when I went to the dentist today I had no idea what he was talking about. The weather, the children, and the children's toys; these were subjects we conversed freely on. But then he was talking about what needed to be done and I was saying; "what? Is that the same as a filling? What's the difference between the two choices you've just given me?" and I've still come away slightly confused about what he's about to do to me.

I think on the whole I'd prefer to know that people who are having babies in this country were completely comfortable with what was going on with them, with their baby and with their pregnancy.

in some cases this can cause real problems.

we have had a consultant phone and get really angry with us because his patient, on a potentially lethal dose of warfarin, could not understand what the path lab was telling him. the consultant was wanting to refuse to treat on the basis that he could kill the patient, because he spoke no english, couldnt understand instructions over the phone and where does a path lab find a translator? when normally they just phone the patient and say reduce the dose or whatever?

i think in some cases a translator is necessary.

but in our doctors people were just coming in, demanding translators, then not even bothering to turn up for the double appointment they had booked, which was annoying, time consuming and a waste of money.

how do you know it was an official translator?

I live in a Flemish speaking gemeente in Belgium, and the rules here are very clear. All transactions at the town hall; all tax returns; car docs; insurance docs are in Flemish. There are no concessions made and no free translators either.

Language classes are provided at a reduced rate. I've done 2 years of Flemish, and can get by. It seems to be here that if you are an EU citizen then you don't need to learn the language, but if you are non EU and want to settle here, then you have to learn, and it will be part of your claiming benefits etc.

I am lucky in that I did A level French and can still manage in that, and here most people speak English, so if I struggle in Flemish or French, they speak English to me. All the Belgian medical professionals that I've encountered also speak to me in English (it's my terrible Flemish pronunciation), but that is a courtesy on their part.

It could be argued that it being a legal requirement of settlement here if you are non EU helps integration, and even if you are EU you need Flemish, French or English. My cleaner is Polish, and we converse in my rusty French, her heavily Russian accented French, and bits of English. It's interesting!

thefirstmrsdevere - good grief. How long ago was that?

Oh, and Wurzel, yes, we'd all like that. But we've just been through a decade of unparalleled immigration - the numbers are so huge that demand for translators/translation has boomed and it's costing the NHS and other public services a massive amount of money. Whatever your feelings about mass immigration, whether it's a good or a bad thing on the whole, these are significant costs.

When I gave birth the hospital were only too eager for me to have a friend be my terp so they didn't have to pay for it. Luckily this worked for me.

This hospital was actually pretty good at arranging interpreters (lots of need for various languages) but the physios admitted that arranging one usually led to a week's delay in getting a routine appt. Most people brought interpreters with them.

I usually rely on reading their screens/ pencil and paper / lipreading, because arranging an appt over Typetalk is enough hassle without trying to check any terp is available too.

I have felt in need of an interpreter in a hospital on many occasions, and I am an English speaker.

I had to ask some of the medical staff to repeat things several times as although they were speaking in English, it was clearly not their native tongue and it was very very difficult to understand.

I agree completely with those who say that in a medical situation, you need to be absolutely clear about what the other person is saying, whether it be patient or doctor.

Most people in a clinical situation are slightly nervous, and I know myself that I often forget what I have been told at appointments, so having a language barrier must make it so much worse.

edam about 6 years.

If you think access to spoken language interpreters is difficult, trying to get a BSL one has been next to impossible in the past.

I dont know what its like now. I hope it has improved a great deal. It is covered in law but even then it was, and it made feck all difference.

I know of children who have had to tell their parents that they (the parent) has cancer because noone booked an interpreter.

My nan spent her last days in rehab hospital. She was in for months. NOT ONCE did she have access to BSL (British Sign Language). They would just shout at her. She was fine apparently 'because she can lipread'

I am desperately hoping that access for Deaf mums to be has improved a lot since I worked in the field

Message withdrawn

thefirstmrsdevere - that's horrifying. And if it's still going on, illegal under the DDA, I'd guess. No knowledge of BSL myself but am fascinated whenever I see an interpreter in public (obviously wouldn't stare if they were working with one person). Spent a happy afternoon at the Globe once, watching the sign language person instead of the actors - he was far more interesting and expressive. (Not Shakespeare btw, some modern dramatist's take on a lesser known ancient Greek playwright.)

Too blooming right ,they should be able to speak english before they get here ,everyone abroad does