to think that people that have been in the UK for a while DONT need translaters?

[porcamiseria]

I am NOT referring to people that have recently moved here, or have come as aylum seekers.

I also reserve similar vitriol when I see programmes about people who haved moved to Spain and it all goes tits up with their house, and they are there SPEAKING ENGLISH, gah

However yesterday I saw a woman in the maternity waiting room, and she arrived and got immediately greeted by her translater, which obviously the NHS are providing

She had a toddler with her, and I overheard the translater say this was her second birth at the hospital in question

so why the fuck has she not learnt English since then? she was nicely dressed etc, so in no way was she destitute

I told DP and he told me to "stop being so English" but I think that people whoever they are should learn the bloody language if they want to make a life and family here

anyway I am going to get flamed now....

At a level to discuss medical procedures??

Yes they can learn a language, but learning a new language is usually based on things like going to the shops, doing basic stuff ....

Dh came here as an asylum seeker 20 years ago and had learnt to speak english at school in India. His letter writing, grammar is far superior to mine and he has never needed a translator. However, he will still occasionally ask me the meaning of a word - this morning it was "impede".

Brits abroad are generally a disgrace and most other countries don't provide translators (because most countries the locals can speak a second or third or forth language and can usually help them out in English Atswimt.)

By the way I have live in other countries where I wasn't native in the language. The doctors always made an attempt to speak to me in my language because nerves and medical terms can make everythign a bit too much if you are not a native speaker and tyring to take it all in. (And yes I spoke the langauge of my host country to a conversational degree)

There are a lot of Polish people in my old home town, and my cousin, who works in a Welsh speaking primary told me yesterday that she now has an intake of Polish children in a Welsh Language school! They will start learning English next year. I thought that was brilliant.

It's hard to judge, but as I am moving to Germany next month and am crap at language I am going to give it my best shot. I would expect to pay for my own translator though. I would hate to think we couldn't help reassure and alleviate the fears of someone frightened and ill though.

Incidentally if it is a routine appt I don't see why the doctor can't type into Babelfish and get the patient a print out or something?

Sorry, but YABU when it comes to medical interpreters (translators are for written language, interpreters for oral IIRC).

in 3 years you can expect someone who's not particularly gifted at languages to be at GCSE level, now all of you with GSCE French and DCs at that level, do you think you/they could hold a detailed medical conversation without the risk of any terms being mixed up? And when stressed, a lot of people 'forget' their 2nd language, I can't imagine having to give birth not understanding what the midwife was going on about or understanding and not being able to think of my reply in the language she was speaking.

I think it's reasonable to expect people to be able to 'get by' for everyday, but unless you're near native (ie post grad level and then several years in that country) it's unreasonable medical situations to not have interpreters. Who should pay for them, is a different issue. And don't get me started on the money local councils spend on translating documents....

I can see the about state funded translators, but equally I guess that medical/legal issues require a grasp of quite complicated language, and it is really important that these things are got right. You don't want any room for ambiguity or mistakes.

Babelfish??????????? Are you having a laugh???

Bloody hell I wouldn't trust babelfish to tell me how to order egg, chips and a beer in Spanish correctly let alone something medical!

It wouldn't happen in the USA - and funnily enough the immigrants there learn the language a lot faster than they do here.

and those that don't speak the language struggle to get into the correct medical insurance system and get left behind completely. Yeah, would much rather we had that in the UK!

as for polish etc, are you aware that some languages are actually linguistically more similar to english than others? I'm not saying I know polish definitely is, but some are so different it is very difficult to bridge the gap that quickly ie: those who dont even share our alphabet! You'll also find not everyone is here to enjoy our wonderful health system, but many are seeking asylum, therefore possibly in a slightly harder frame of mind than your average economic migrant, and not so likely to knuckle down and learn a language in 9 months...

I'd rather the NHS spent or "wasted" money as you put it if it meant we were able to medically assist those who need it rather than risking people suffering because they cant be understood. I pay national insurance and do not begrudge a penny of it going towards this service, and I hope that I never have to make use of a similar one in another country.

babelfish type automated translations are not accurate.. so not really a great idea

Fortunately I expect her mind was on the health of her unborn baby rather than the woman with a cats bum mouth in the waiting room glaring at her and talking to her husband about her.

Perhaps the lady chose to give birth and communicate using her first language. After all it is a very personal and emotional experience and she may not know the medical and anatomical terms. Do you know for certain if the translator was provided by the NHS or if the lady was paying for her service?

I agree with NotQuiteCockney who says it is hard to learn a new language as an adult. I know plenty of British people who live in Spain, who are fluent in Spanish, but choose to take an interpreter with them to a medical consultation.

And maybe you should also learn to spell, punctuate and write English correctly before you make assumptions about other people's abilities to speak the language.

PMSL @Rainbowinthesky

Ayude a mi bebé está saliendo de mi vagina!

Do you know it was a free service or that perhaps she had paid for her own? All I see on forums for Germany are lists of English peaking doctors so I don't think we are too hot abroad on this subject either. Perhaps you are right - Ouch is the same in all languages isn't it?

We used it for my Dh's German divorce papers and for the rental agreements on our house, so can't wait to see what tinderwood fire hazard we'll be moving into next week then

*speaking

and yes I do have English quals, in some dusty envelope....somewhere.

Helfen Sie meinem Baby herauskommt aus meine Vagina

I also agree, that generally, in mainland europe especially, people speak english as a second language - the dutch speak it even better than we do! Therefore the need for an interpreter is lessened somewhat.

YABU

you don't know what steps she's taken to learn the language; you don't know anything at all about her personal circumstances- other than that she's got one child and about to have another. You're just making a snap judgement.

I have some experience of working and studying with asylum seekers/immigrant women and without exception each one was busting a gut to balance (sometimes considerable) family/work/study commitments together with learning English. In each case I've been astonished with how the reality doesn't fit with the 'lazy' stereotype we're lazily offered- and in some cases lazily accept

[glares]

Re other countries providing translators/interpreters - thoughtout the EU, every EU citizen is entitled to a free, qualified interpreter if arrested and for all legal documents to be translated (again, by a qualified translator) into your EU mother tongue - however, you have to know to ask for it.

They don't all have to provide free medical interperters, but then not all EU countries have 'free at the point of use' health services. If anything happens on holiday and you might need a translater, call your insurance, most can arrange one, and I know when my dad needed one in France they just put a UK based interpreter on speaker phone...

Anyone living in a foreign country should make an effort to learn the official language. It can however be very difficult to achieve good enough conversational level let alone become fluent enough not to need an interpreter on certain occasions. I speak 5 languages fluently - learning languages is easy for me but it has taken several years to get to this level.

Caiga sus pantalones y tos. Trague este dos aspirin.

Fartytowels - I ran that through babelfish - took a stab at it being Spanish

and it came up with

"It falls its trousers and cough. Aspirin swallows this two."

...as for hospitals providing translators at the drop of a hat- I know of one woman (asylum seeker-learning English) who was given a translator at some of her ante natal appointments- some not (I went instead- literally to hold her hand as I couldn't translate for her!) In the end she gave birth- for the first time- in a big London teaching hospital without a translator or any of her family there (she had only her husband and brother in the UK- for cultural reasons they wouldn't/couldn't be there with her)

She didn't complain about it at all and acccepted it as her due- I would think any of us who have gone through a hospital birth can appreciate how terrifying that must be.

This was about ten years ago and it would seem from the OP that things have changed and translators are much more freely available. Good thing I reckon. Even if you have been here for a while medical language is baffling.

toccatanfudge you've just completed an Army medical. Well done.

Ahora, usted debe dejar la cirugía por favor, yo tiene otros pacientes a ver.

Bit off topic but.....I live in France and I get really pissed off with English speakers who just live here for cheap booze, but don't bother to learn any French. There was someone posting the other day complaining that the education ministry posted info about half term in French ffs. What did she expect? All God knows how many eu languages?

The same ones only buy overpriced brit food in supermarkets, drive miles and miles for fish and chips in their rhd UK-plated cars (which are illegal after 6 months, the plate not the rhd), and never complete tax retrun despite having lived here for years. They think they can just 'decide' where they pay their tax. Grrrr

Sorry, rant over. It's just as an immigrant, I want to become integrated as much as poss, and don't want to become tarred with the same brush as some of the others.

We aren't really able to judge this woman from so far away. We don't know anything about her, ho long she has been here etc.
My dh had been in this country about 4 years when i met him, and had learned the language for about 2 years previously. In complicated conversations he would need the other person to be patient and perhaps explain things in simple terms but he wouldn't have needed a translator.

I know all people are different... I don't think i could have done what he did and presuming mystery hospital woman has a similar situation as dh did (made a big effort to immerse himself and make the most of new experiences incl learning the language) I have nothing but admiration for her.

As lots of others have said, it's one thing to have quite a good grasp of a language in an every-day sense but it's a completely different ball game when it's medical/legal etc. I lived in Spain for a while and made the effort to learn the language but when my then boyf broke his leg and I had to translate for him I wish we'd had access to a proper translator!!

i've only lived in Germany for 18 months and still find medical appointments stressful. i agree that she may speak passable english but perhaps she's having a complex pregnancy and wants to be assured she know exactly whas going on!

but i also have issues with people (not saying this woman is one of them - we'll never know!)living in a country and not learning the language. I'm working my ass off trying to improve my German while being a SAHM with 3dc while my dh is at work all day. but for any decent quality of life in a foreign country then i think you need to learn the language. I went to some lessons and some of the other people had lived here for 20 years and couldnt hold a conversation!

(fartytowels - come and join us on the german thread! hope your move goes ok!)