To think that more people nowadays have very odd expectations of parenthood?

[Nemofish]

We can't have newborns napping when they want to, we can't let newborns fall asleep on us as we have Very Important Things to do, we can't have them not sleeping through the night at birth???!!!

Not having a go at anyone on here, but I feel that some people have weird expectations. They are astounded when their very young baby won't be put down, they are amazed when the baby wants feeding every 2 hours round the clock and quite frankly, baby not sleeping through at 6 weeks? Well you must be doing something wrong then!!!

Even before I actually gave birth to An Amazing Non-Sleeping Baby, I knew that I would be spending weeks if not months and months with a baby attached to me (and I couldn't even breastfeed!) and I expected to be sleep deprived (check) and that things for me, like eating, sleeping and showering, would be taking a back seat to dd's needs (check). Also things like socialising or nights out opr hair cuts - just forget it.

But some people have really weird expectations, both men and women. Are we being fooled by idealistic and unrealistic portrayals of family life in the meedja? Or is it coming from somewhere else? I don't get it.

Nemo I agree with you. The whole idea that life can carry on exactly as before for the parents is bizarre, and selfish.

I think In The Old Days people were more likely to be familiar with babies and their habits before they actually had babies themselves; families were bigger and folk had babies younger. With women not becoming mothers until their late twenties, thirties or even forties, and having spent many years in full time employment, that easy familiarity simply isn't there any more. For many people, the first time they hold a new-born, it's their own.

There's also an expectation that, "If I want something, I can have it" (many years of easy credit) without realising that it's not quite the same as ordering a car with air con, multiplay CD etc... "I'll have a dark-haired, blue-eyed baby girl who will sleep through from birth and never tantrum." (That would have been my order, he's a strapping rugby-player now.)

Weeeeeell, my first needed all of the things you mentioned but my 4 week old DD2 has been a doddle so far so maybe people's expecttions are informed by their experience with babies who are less demanding than yours?

I think as well (for me anyway) everyone else seems to have it easier. There are families I know of who seem to have a much easier time during the 'baby years'. I think a lot of people see someone with a baby and think they have it perfect so they expect it to be the same for them. When in reality you dont really get to see the hard times of other young families. Your not there at 4 in the morning when their 2 week old has woken up for the 5th time that night, your not there when they cant stop their baby crying so you dont see the bad stuff and expect that everythings perfect for them so it should be for you too. (By you I dont mean anyone personally, just why someone might have these high expectations)

I was also one who had never held a baby until 5.5 yrs ago when I had DS. I was happy to make it through 24 hours.

But some people don't have any experience of babies at all.

I didn't know anyone who had a baby when I got pg with my PFB so although people say you'll be sleep deprived, you have no concept of what this means until you are there. And the same for putting aside my own needs in favour of PFB's; I didn't understand that there would be days when I couldn't shower, or that I wouldn't be able to so such as go for a wee when I wanted!

So, YABU for assuming that everyone should know what you know. Some people just have to find out for themselves.

OldLady has a very valid point. The first baby I held was DD1.....no experience of babies at all when she was born. I realised that I would have broken sleep at night, but I had no idea that my baby would refuse to be put down for 3 months or that a feed would take so bloody long. I honestly thought she would feed for 15 minutes and then lie peacefully in her moses basket and go off to sleep.

I also thought I would have time to make myself a sandwich and have a shower etc whilst she slept. Big shock for me when it didn't happen. I just didn't know though........no one had told me.

In this age of super fast information everywhere you look, no one facing something as life changing as having a baby should be ignorant of the basic facts. You only have to put 'baby 3 week old sleep' into google to find a shedload of information. People soon find out when their favourite tv prog is on. No reason why they can't find out things like this so no experience of babies doesn't really wash anymore.

"I just didn't know though........no one had told me."

I was the first in our circle to fall pregnant. As others did, I tried to share my experiences of pregnancy, birth and baby-raising, but was astonished (and then offended) to be told to shut up about it, they didn't want to hear about the hard stuff.

So when they came back months later wailing that no-one had told them, I kept my own counsel.

(Not suggesting sapphireblue took the same head-in-sand attitude.)

I do agree with you to an extent, but sometimes it can swing too far in the other direction and some mothers can turn into martyrs. A lot of my friends are just having first babies now and there seems to be a competiton over who is the most tired, who hasn't had time for a shower for the longest.

I have friends who's lives revolve around the childs nap times/feeding times. They find it hard to leave the house, spend ages packing up bags to go out for the day.

I didn't live like that when ds was a baby and still don't. we were always flexable and ds ate/slept on the go if need be. I'd shove a nappy and a bottle in my bag and we were good to go. I always managed to fit in showers/cleaning etc. Ds wasn't an easy baby, we were in scbu for four weeks, he had terrible reflux, had to be watched because if breathing problems, we also co slept and he was carried in a sling or in my arms
almost constantly. But I just got on with my life, with ds in it.

My life has pretty much carried on as before I had ds in the seven years since he was born, apart from dh and I now have ds to share it all with. I do the same things
I did before (such as travelling, going to festivals etc) but I do those things with ds. Luckily, he has a dad around, so if I want to go out for an eveing or have a hair cut I could/can, he is with his father.

Having said that, I wasn't a headonisitc party goer before ds was born, I may have found things harder if I have of been!

My neighbour started refusing to give her baby night feeds (bottle) at 8 weeks old to stop him waking up and then dared to whinge to me the next day that he'd been crying for hours. I could not keep quiet on that one but she kept doing it and proudly informed me a few weeks later that 'he sleeps through now'. Yes you daft mare because you've taught him that mommy cares more about sleep than his hunger and he's given up on you

The attitudes towards babies i encounter astound me. I've heard a 2 week old called a spoilt brat for wanting to be held, a 12 week old referred to as 'difficult' because it saw it's mother walking out of the room and cried... and subsequently had a bottle propped in it's mouth while mummy had a fag and I've seen a 14 week old, who could barely hold her head up never mind sit up, having food shoveled into her mouth as she was asking for bottles every 4 hours and the mother felt this was too often . The same mother only gives 2 bottles a day now the baby is 6 months as 'she has proper meals now'

It's as if people can't comprehend that babies aren't just smaller versions of adults but are undeveloped organisms who have very differant needs and wants to their parents. People go so far as the label these tiny infants 'spoilt' or 'difficult' for simply asking for their basic needs to be filfilled.

Rockbird, I DID read throughout my pregnancy. My point is that you don't know what it's going to be like until you are living it.

All babies are different of course, so you just don't know which bits are going to be challenging and which will be a doddle.

I think actually, the big elephant in the corner is: some people are not very good at parenting actually Tulips. They make me very cross and sad too

We do have unrealistic expectations, that's why you find rose oil featuring on more birth plans than preferred stitching types!

Partly we get too much information on children, but not from experience and partly it's about we put ourselves under so much pressure to be an uberparent whose child exceeds everyones explanations. Personally I'm quite happy to have two average kids who are happy.

I loved the fact that my children needed me so much. Of course there were many times when I was covered in sick and desperately wanted a bath or an hour of peace on my own but this doesn't last all that long. Don't get me wrong, I am no earth mother who finds motherhood comes naturally, I am just proud to have had 3 dcs who relied on me and nobody else for a tiny portion of my life.
It isn't easy but I didn't expect it to be and I have made many mistakes. Parenthood should be cherished and we should all be honest- it isn't a time to be selfish.

I never held a baby until I had DD1 and I coped OK and just did things 'naturaly', did not read up much about it either, just used the Mumsnet 'circle' to ask questions.

But then I've always been quite nuturing and have kept pets of all sorts for many years so having DD1 was just an extension to this .

I've had friends who've not coped very well and they never had pets in their life (because of allergies or parents did not want them to have any) and of course this little human being comes along and has needs and they feel like they have 'lost' themselves.

Nemofish I agree. Babies are only babies for such a short time, the sleepless nights, the days when they are just cry and cry are really hard but then you gaze down at their sweet little faces and your heart just melts.
They are so utterly dependent on their parents, they trust us utterly. Surely it isn't that much to ask to put these precious little people's welfare before your own selfish considerations?

But you dont really 'get' it until youre living it no matter how much reading you do.

I remember reading the baby would probably want feeding every 2-3 hours, I thought that meant 15min feeding 2h45m sleeping. Thats not how it works. Ds didnt 'do' sleep when he was little, especially very little.

Our BIL and SIL have been blessed with a baby who sleeps and has slept 7-10 (until 8 weeks, then no night feed) then 1030-630 since 2/3 weeks. BIL moans that it is hard work needing to be up at 630.

I am expecting dc2. I am hoping and praying for a magical sleeping baby and sticking me head in the sand about sleep deprivation!

Buy them Rachel Cusk's book on being a mother which says it all.

In our family our much older ones have seen the much younger ones so do know exactly how it is. And it's huge fun but it's not an exercise in precision, nor saying I do X and baby does X or even teenager does X. We have the privilege to borrow our children for a while and enjoy seeing how they are as much as mking them what they are.

I had only held a newborn a few times before I had my own! No experience of babies from friends or family either.

But I did watch an awful lot of Discovery Health Channel though.

Also from being a teenager up until I had dd, I had worked with people / children with severe disabilities, so seeing to someone elses needs first came more naturally to me I think.

But yes it is crazy to be ignorant of pretty basic stuff in this day and age.

And I think the 'if I want something, I can have it' that *OldLadyKnowsNothing' mentioned plays a part too.

And perhaps the not being a good parent / selfishness aspect too

I agree OP. I'm glad I read loads about parenting before even TTC as it really helped prepare me, but parenthood is still a shock!

Like many on this thread, the first baby I ever held was my own. I remember sitting on the stairs holding her, just staring at her when she was 4 days old. Dh had gone to work and wouldn't be home for 11 hours. I had no family to visit or even phone to see how I was getting on. I said to her "it's just me and you kid" and I remember thinking how fucking unnatural that was, and thinking about all the other brand new mums who were at that very moment sitting in their little semi-detached boxes with their tiny little alien creature babies, wondering what on earth to do next. Such isolated parenting cannot be a good thing.

sorry, but in 'the olden days' i.e. when our parents were babies, their parents were advised to put them in the pram at the end of the garden so they could get on with their household tasks. They were told to feed 4 hourly, and just left babies out of ear shot in between. Babies were taken away in hosptial except for feeds, for the first 2 weeks.

A lot of our parents had similar ideas when we were babies (MIL told me she put BIL in the moses basket in the kitchen, as that way she could sleep without hearing him cry in the night). So it's not surprising that a lot of people have unreal expectations, they have been raised round people who talk about getting sleep and getting on with their household tasks, and just assumed it's because the baby would fit in, that that the baby would be ignored unless it was 'time to give baby attention'.

She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named didn't re-invent the wheel, she's just made money out of writing a routine that's not far off what our grandparents did.

And some people are shit parents, and make their laziness sound like their child has choosen to behave that way, and before having children, others hear this and think that's what it'll be like.

I was 31 when I had my baby and hadn't had any amount of contact with babies - so I had NO IDEA about any of it.

Some people tried to tell me what it would be like, but I didn't totally beleive them. I mean folk say getting a mortgage is tragic and life changing, but the reality of a mortgage for me was that it was cheaper than rent and hardly a millstone round my neck!

Of course we have weird expectations when modern families are small and isolated.

I babysat for babies and older children as a teenager. So I did know what looking after a baby was like. I also knew that there was nothing selfish or wrong in choosing to be a mother and go out on a night out.

There has to be a middle ground between neglect and putting off having children for years under the misguided belief that having any non-child related fun comes to an end the moment you give birth.

I had a baby that didnt sleep through the night until 2. Didnt stop me doing anything still went to uni, work, out socialising etc. Having a baby isnt as big a deal as people make out even when they are waking up all the time imo.