Am I being unreasonable to not smack my son when he throws a tantrum and lashes out at me?

[teaandcakeplease]

I am a mumsnet regular, however I've never started a topic in AIBU, so please be gentle with me but I genuinely need to know if I am being unreasonable.

Bit of background: I have 2 children aged almost 3 and 18 months. My husband left me for a 21 yr old in October 2009 (short version of this, long one in relationships somewhere ). So I am a single parent bringing up 2 DCs on my own.

I do not have stairs as I live in a flat, so rather than a naughty step, my DD gets sent to stand by the front door when she behaves appallingly. This seems to work quite well for her and then after a few minutes I have a chat with her about why she shouldn't have done X and go and say sorry to Y. If she does something even more horrendous I take her favourite toy away for a set period of time after a warning. Anyway this works well for her at the moment and her behaviour is improving lately. I know there is still room for improvement in how I deal with things and am swatting up on books at the moment though.

My son has recently begun to throw tantrums when I say "no" to something. This usually involves flinging himself backwards and screaming and kicking his legs. He usually calms down after a few minutes. Distraction often works as well I find, as he is so small and tricky to reason with. In fact my son is very tenacious and goes back to things over and over again, that he knows he shouldn't do. So I try to arrange my flat to be child proofed to the best of my ability, to avoid these constant battles and the ones I cannot avoid I try to be consistent on. However when he is very tired sometimes his tantrums become more extreme and he may hit out at me. I usually say a firm "no" and he stops.

Anyway (sorry for the long explanation) today at my parents he kept repeatedly trying to do something, I'd tried saying "no", tried distraction, tried taking elsewhere etc and eventually he got very frustrated and very cross and hit out at me, I said a firm "no" and he stopped. He was very tired, it had been a long day and I was leaving theirs soon. My Dad at that point told me I should have smacked him and I said "surely when I'm trying to teach him that lashing out isn't acceptable, it makes no sense to smack him, to teach him to stop smacking me?" He walked off out of the room at that point cross with me. In fact several previous times at my parents, they have taken it upon themselves to smack my children on their wrist, when they're doing something they do not agree with. Which I've found tricky, they do not warn them first and sometimes it seems extremely minor the reason they've chosen. I suspect some of their reasoning is that now I'm a single parent, they think I need some help to bring the children up My mum also told me today that if I do not come down hard on him and then at school they're not allowed to challenge childrens behaviour properely anymore either, that basically he'll become a tear away as a teenager. I said he's not going to become a tear away, I do not give in to him and remain consistent when he throws tantrums and I said he is only 18 months and his sister was tricky at this age as well.

I know my parents have a problem with the fact that smacking is something I am not keen on, I have been known in the heat of the moment to do it and have felt awful afterwards but I know that it is not the best option and I try very hard to use other methods. But am I being unreasonable to not smack my son when he throws a tantrum and lashes out at me? Is he going to turn into a tear away if I do not discipline him more harshly at 18 months? I'm so tired of feeling like I'm not a good enough parent, my parents smacked me so much as a child though and I do not want it to be the first resort with my children

Sorry it's so long. So what do you think ladies (or gents)?

"No point smacking for a tantrum, will just wind him and you up more."

Yes that´s so right!

Mind you, I used to try cuddling mine & that drove them mad as well!

Sometimes they just had to be left to "get the anger/frustration out" iyswim.

just wanted to add my YANBU to the pot

You sound like you are doing brilliantly. YANBU - smacking, IMO, solves nothing and teaches nothing other than how to smack.

We've never smacked our kids (I was smacked and I have to resist the urge to sometimes, when I'm really pushed because of this modelling in my early life) but it's not what we want to do. Incidentally, the only person ever to smack any of my children is my mother. She was told in no uncertain terms that this is unacceptable and we expect her not to do it again.

The other day I went to the Doctors and my 22 month old DS had a tantrum - he wanted to get out of the pushchair, but I would let him as we were about to be called in (or so I thought)- so he then screamed and lashed out for the next 10 minutes. I tried speaking to him in the firm tones I use for occasions like this and he was having none of it so I had no choice but to let it die out. The only problem was that the other people waiting in the surgery couldn't hear the announcements and were tutting very loudly (and they were of a generation that would think that a smack would sort it out). The best bit of all though was the GP who came from his room to get his next patient, glared at me for the entire time it took him to walk down the corridor. He got my best Paddington stare back.

I think you should definitely carry on as you are. It might seem hard and slow-going now but it will have huge benefits later - and when your children have their own kids, they won't have the instinct to smack as you won't have modelled it to them.

Personally, I think you are doing the right thing.

I would never ever smack my kids.

Hubby would, and believes it is acceptable, but has agreed not to as I feel so strongly.

I don't think that it is necessarily an absolute no no to smack, if it is done in a "this is what it feels like, you don't like it so please don't do it" kind of way, but wouldn't do it and again that is my personal view.

However, none of this is really important. What is important is, as others have said:

1. Your kids sound normal and your strategies great.

1. It is up to you how you bring up your kids. If your parents advice is well meant, take it as such - its okay to have different views. If they are being critical (can be hard to judge as we can all be over sensitive sometimes) then just ignore them.

YANBU - you sound like you are doing a fab job.

I would never allow anyone to chastise my babies (who are the same ages as yours roughly) and if that ever happened I would make sure the children know that's completely unacceptable, I would want them to see me carmly stand up for them, as their mother I'm their to protect them I honestly am shocked that you allow this

My DS is nearly 4 now and is still a bit of a 'hitter' but we always (ok nearly always) resisted the urge to smack as it was clearly counterproductive. As he's got older and become very vocal the couple of times I've lost my temper he has told me how naughty it is to hit. Doesn't always stop him doing it but I feel that trying for that consistent approach and practising what we preach he at least knows right and wrong.

YANBU. I have smacked my childen when they were little but not without giving a warning. And never after a tantrum or if they had lashed out at me.

Forget other people especially the older generation, they only know how to smack .
You sound like you are doing everything right and I wish you were my mum!

My parents used to smack for any little misdeed and at one point my mum used to use a carpet beater (not to hit us) but to scare the living daylights out of us by wacking the furniture and threatening to hit us wit it .

My own mum has not been much of a grandmother to her own grandchildren as when my DD1 had a tantrum (first one ever), my own mum just hit her.

Not let her look after them ever since

OMG do you have my PIL's?? We received a letter from them 2 years ago telling us we needed to sort our son out as he would end up in big trouble later in life. He was 5. He had speech delay. They are utter idiots.

We didn't speak to them for a year..

I don't smack, I use better methods like you. They are ancient and believe a good smack is what is required. I have told them over and over again if we smack it teaches the child violence is OK.

I would also be taking them aside and telling them to cease smacking your children else you will stop taking them round. Its totally unacceptable.

You are doing absolutely the right thing, and under tough circumstances, you sound like an excellent mum.

Well Done!

Babydubseverywhere - I don't "allow" it. I'm not happy at all with the fact my parents have slapped my children's wrists. I did stand up for them calmly, I did speak to them about it already. In my post at 21:18 last night I did say that:

"I've tried talking to them Wurzel, I did this at my previous visit. They didn't discipline them for me this time (I suppose that's progress?), they just chose instead this time to tell me that I should smack him only."

So that is why I began this AIBU to get some more people's views on the situation. But I don't just allow it they know I don't like it and how I feel, very much so. Just wish I was lucky enough to have a husband with me, then they probably wouldn't have begun getting so involved in how I parent my kids

If it wasn't for this obsession of theirs that smacking is the answer, things would be great, as otherwise they're decent people. I wish I was lucky enough to have grown up with parents who did things differently/ or realised now as Grandparents that things have changed for the better. Sadly they are very stuck in their ways. But I am hopeful over time that they will see that my children can grow up into decent human beings without smacking for every misdemeanor.

I have already started to limit the time I spend particularly round my Dad, as he is far worse about it all. It's sad really but my feelings are known about it all. I wasn't shy yesterday in telling him that I didn't think smacking was the answer, hence him storming out of the room.

Maryqueenofchocs - shocked that your PIL wrote you a letter!

OP-it´s also to do with your parents treating you as an adult and not thinking that they know better, isn´t it?

Especially taking over the disciplining of the children whilst you are there.

Exactly Diddl.

t&c - well, yep, that would be why it doesn't seem that long!!

Your parents are probably trying to give you a break from being the bad guy all the time as well - but it's not easy is it!!

Just keep in mind - you are doing a great job with the kids!!!

Of course YANBU not to smack your 18 month old!
You sound as if you are doing a brilliant job under v difficult circumstances!

An 18 month old is not really capable of being naughty. He is just finding out about his boundaries. You just have to try to be consistent. Also, distraction, taking him away from the situation and making a child laugh works really well with this age group!

Today was my family get together with all of my 4 brothers, their wives and children. I had actually been looking forward to today and my DD loves her cousins. My DS is full of cold and grumpy and I think he'd have been happier at home today, he's now 23 months old, he is saying a few words and pointing to things but he still gets frustrated when he cannot get the message across he wants on what he needs iyswim? He can lash out and throw toys when cross. I'm now using time outs and at home this is working well.

So his cousin brought her zhu zhu pet hamster and car to the gathering today and my son was very excited (as he adores cars) and couldn't understand why he couldn't play with it. He was very upset and cried and shouted, cue my dad muttering under his breath about my son and including various expletives. Then my mother tells me he is just like his cousin Colin was at that age (he has aspergers) and how dreadful my son is. I then 5 minutes later go upstairs as I could hear my son upset and my SIL was trying to wrestle him downstairs, he had wanted a go on the rocking horse but my SIL didn't understand what the problem was and was trying to tidy up the room she was staying in with my brother and their small baby and she seemed cross with my son too. Then I decide to take my son for a walk so I could get some air as it was all getting to me. My family have always been very good at sitting round the table and being rude/ judging people of an evening. I'm almost convinced they'd decided long before my visit today that my son was apparently going to be a certain way.

On my return I tried to talk to my mum about how hard I find it when dad says such horrid things about my son in my ear shot, DS may not understand yet but as he grows it won't escape him and it will not be good for his self esteem and confidence being treated automatically like some naughty child. My mum then proceeded again to tell me how I wasn't firm enough with him and she had 4 sons and they required a firm hand and I need to smack him more etc. Today made me so sad and tearful. My ex husband left me for a 21 year old and behaved terribly and lied to me, I honestly think my son is treated a certain way due to his father. My dad has also said outloud to him "you're just like your dad" before. I'm so tired of being criticised and judged by my family and my son being demonised due to his father. What my children need is family in their lives who are good role models and encourage them. My mum insists that's not what they need but a firm hand. It's now been 5 months since my original post and things are getting worse. I feel so sad tonight. I don't know what to do and I know this post isn't very clear but I'm feeling very wobbly.

My mum even managed to bring up the fact yet again that I was a difficult child apparently

How hard would it be for you to cut, or dramatically decrease, contact with your family? Do you rely on their help in any way?

Frankly from your post it sounds like the way they are constantly undermining you you would be better off just keeping away from them all.

Oh T&CP it sounds like an awful day

I think you're right, I think it sounds like they had decided that your DS would be difficult even before you got there and the treated him in a way which made him so - SIl wrestling him for example!

Hitting is never the answer, stick to your guns. As your DS learns more communication skills things will get easier.

You're doing a fab job

No advice I'm afraid but sympathy.

My mum always comments how DS is exactly like I was at his age. And then says he is the way he is because I made him that way when discussing my parenting quietly quite openly with my childless younger sister.

I agree that smacking is not the answer to teaching your DS not to hit. I cannot comment on the firmness of your repremand. IME one persons idea of firm is anothers idea of being soft. Doesn't make one right tho.

Your doing a great job of raising 2 children alone and certainly they should not be comparing him to his father - thats unfair.

Hey Teaand Cake. Xmas can suck, eh?
Try and ignore your family regarding your son. It is shit of them to be making you feel inadequate and defensive of him. He is just a baby really!

With regards to the discipline-when my son went thru a phase of smacking me, at about 2, I would just pick him up, without a word, plonk him in his cot and walk away for a couple of minutes.
Then I would go in and say " you do not smack!"
It worked a treat. He never smacks anyone now, or is violent, which is more than I can say about some of the kids I know who never seem to get punished for hitting other kids (or their mums)

Don't worry-keep it in perspective. You are doing a great job, obviously.If you are managing as a single parent, with all that stress and not losing it you are awesome.

Yes NR that's where my son goes for his time outs and it really works well. The hitting is lessening when his sister isn't being mean to him.

Poor little sausage. I am feeling quite protective of the slating he has been getting from your rellys.

Don't forget to do the positive reinforcement as well (praise for good behaviour) I am crap and this and forget a lot, but it does work wonders.

at this I mean .(Getting late!)

I don't smack my DC as a rule, but have smacked DS1 twice in his life, he is 5. Now if I get really cross, all that is required is a 'do you want a smack' and that sorts things out. You shouldn't feel guilty about smacking your child, but it should be a very last resort