Payments to ex wife. Opinions sought.

[TheWaspFactory]

I'm told this is a good place to get opinions. Don't hold back please ladies...

I have a six year old son to my ex wife. We have been separated for about 2 years now and are on cordial, if not friendly terms.

He lives with her and I see him every other weekend.

I currently pay a considerable sum every month to my ex by way of child support. This amount is much more than I would pay through a CSA enforced agreement. I actually suggested this amount as I want the best for my son.

Living and financial arrangements have been agreed between myself and my ex wife informally.

I should point out that I'm by and large happy (well, satisfied maybe) with the concept if not the execution of this plan. Ideally I'd like to have full time residency of my son but my ex wife has made clear she doesn't want this to happen so for the moment, this situation is probably the best for all concerned.

However, I've an issue with the amount I pay and how it is used. I pay this cash for the benefit of my son - not my ex wife. I neither care nor know how she supports herself. The thing is I'm not convinced she is actually spending this cash on my son.

Would I be unreasonable to ask for receipts or some kind of evidence of where my money is going? I appreciate that a significant amount of this is rolled up in to my ex wife's living costs (housing, etc) which can't be separated from supporting my son and to be fair he's not exactly going hungry but I end up buying him most of the stuff I expect my monthly payment to pay for. For example, I end up buying the vast majority of his clothes when he's with me, most of his schooling expenses (trips, uniform, etc) are paid by me, toys - again by me. All the material things end up at my ex's home.

As far as I'm concerned I'm supporting my son - not my ex wife. This money is meant to pay for him, not her handbags and holidays.

I'm tempted to tear up our agreement and go down the official route. As I'm self employed the amount the CSA would specify would be a fraction of what I'm paying now. The balance I could put in to a trust or similar for my son when he's older.

However, before I do this, I thought the receipt idea might be a fair push to actually get wife to spend my money on my son.

Opinions please? I appreciate that this may not be a "popular" post but thought a view from the "other side" might be enlightening...

I agree with the original poster. His responsibility is to his child not his ex-wife. Why should he pay towards her handbags!?!?!

I am probably going to be criticised for saying this but in a lot of cases maintenance payments are not being used on their intended purposes.

I should imagine that the OPs contribution towards his child doesn't just stop with these payments. He will more than likely be spending on clothes, toys and days out on the days he has access to his child.

Unfortunately, the law always favours the mother- yet if a single father was to pursue an errant mother for payment they would be laughed out of Court. I think that the OP sounds like a decent chap- he is talking about putting money into trust for his child so I don't feel that he deserves to be slated.

Maintenance is calculated on the non resident parents income and has nothing to do with how much the resident parent earns.

So if I earn the same as my ex (and I pretty much do) he still has to pay towards his children as they live with me 95% of the time. The way I see it is I have far higher living expenses, childcare etc, so he should contribute. How I spend it is my business

I don't think the OP came across as controlling. He has already said that the receipts thing probably came over more harshly than he intended.

I have no experience of marriage breakdown, and I think as others have said you don't really understand the position here until you have had such an experience, and then your opinion is coloured by your personal circumstances.

I think (probably idealistically) that were I to break up with DH, we would hope to agree a sum based mostly around DCs 'costs' (nursery fees, swimming lessons etc). To be honest though I would expect a visitation split nearer to 50:50, and I have not given up my career to have DC, just taken maternity leave. We don't know how much time off was taken by either party here when the child was young, nor do we know how much the ex Husbands life is 'disrupted' by the child at the moment (eg does he take time off for doctors appts, etc).

Swallowedafly - we didn't have a house, we weren't married then and lived in rooms.

DSD only saw us when we travelled to her Nanas and she stayed with us there. She did have a toothbrush at nanas (although not knickers)- we had collected her from her house and (stupidly?) expected her mum to have packed her case with the things she might actually need.....not nonsense at all love, just an Ex being a bitch and her daughter suffering for it.

sammi - if he wants to go down the CSA route - let him and he will find out just how difficult that route is

This is money that is paid for the chidls upbring

If this man wants to be controlling and say oh I am not paying you as much now as I have changed my mind and you are not spending this moeny on our son - you are doing xyz with the money.

Fine I would say fuck off then cos I don't want to be controlled by a man over money and I would spend my own money on our dc

I woudl rather a parent decides how much money is going intot he pot for son and then sticks to it

if he wants to be an idiot and wants receits and to be controlling over where money goes it would not make the situation good and fucking off isn't going.

peple get so hung up on woamn spending money on clothes handbags and holidays

i wonder if this father has spent money on holdiays and if he perhaps has a few boys toys? But that would be ok for him to have a few boys toys but not the female as it is seens as his money being spent ont he extras - not her wages from part time work

I would rather pay for my own dc upbring and tell an ex to fuck off he he wants to mess about with payemnts and get me to give receits to him - I am not a flipping nanny ro employee and it is not right he should be treating any perosn in this manner.

ad fuck off is most appropriate in thsi case.

This is why woman end up standing on their own two feet rather than having to explain themselfs to a control freak ex

swallowed - i thought that too . Not even a toothbrush ...bizzare .

Totally agree with Shiney and Sweedes. Sweedes - my dad did that - only found he was married weeks afterwards. Not surprisingly we have no relationship now.

But OP - do I take it from what you said about being self-employed would mean you have to contribute less that you don't put all your earnings through your books

If your son is in rags whilst your ex is busy drinking Dom Perignon whilst getting her nails done - then yes - you have a point. But that doesn't seem to be the case really.

Perhaps try to talk to your ex a bit - unless it was an abusive relationship it really is best to show your son that you can still get on.

Don't put him in the middle and he'll soon realise that you suspect his mum is squandering money and will either start resenting you or her or playing that situation to his advantage.

Elastamum - thanks. I was just wondering whether the mother would have to provide details of her income and outgoings or was it simply just decided on the basis of the non resident parent's income.

drloves - same answer to you - not everyone lives in a house you know

sorry , ltleevedalas ...didnt type fast enough , and youre explanation was up before my comment ...apologies .

Thank you all for the comments - very illuminating and they've given me something to think about.

A couple of points.

1. I should never had said receipts. It was a clumsy way of expressing my intention. What I want is some evidence that cash I hand over is being spent where it should be. I don't expect an itemised list of expenditure and I appreciate that there are some (many) things that can't be separated out nicely but I do expect some visibility of where my money is going.

1. I absolutely do not accept that I'm supposed to hand over my cash every month for my ex to spend as she wishes with no accountability or visibility. The money is not for her, it's for my son. I have the right to at least see how that money is spent. This wouldn't be acceptable in any other walk of life, I don't see why this is any different.

1. Tweaking my accounts and going to the CSA to pay next to nothing remains an option but after reading this thread one that I'm unlikely to look at for the simple reason it could hurt my son. However, its a possible "nuclear weapon" of last resort should things ever deteriorate and I need a bargaining tool to keep access to my son.

1. I want to say again that this post is about my son, I don't accept that I'm looking to "control" my wife or anything like it. As long as it doesn't impact on my boy I have no interest in what she does or how she does it.

Again, thank you all for the perspective. I'm afraid I won't be able to come back here for a few hours but I will read the thread when possible.

"i wonder if this father has spent money on holdiays and if he perhaps has a few boys toys? But that would be ok for him to have a few boys toys but not the female as it is seens as his money being spent ont he extras - not her wages from part time work"

This is massive assumption on your part and completely untrue.

Actually,I dont think you are being unreasonable and I think its great you came to a website like this for advice.
I have some male friends in exactly the same position.It may not be popular as a woman to say this,but sometimes men do get a rough deal when it comes to child visitation etc.. and I have seen the pain experienced by men who do not get to see their kids as often as they would like.One of my friends just kept handing out money to his ex whenever she demanded it,he never asked what it was for but when it came to visitation,his ex demanded to know where he was taking his daughter,what they where doing,who he was speaking to etc...it was crazy.Basically she wanted the relationship back and when he explained that this was not what he wanted,his daughter was used as a weapon.
Believe me,following a separation EVERYONE suffers in some way.Fathers have rights too and it angers me that sometimes they are denied these.Both parents no matter what the circumstances must do what is right for the kids.I actually applaude you for seeking advice here but I would drop the idea of asking for receipts.You are providing financially for your child so you are doing the right thing by him.Set a reasonable amount that is to be paid to your ex wife and please allow her to use it as she sees fit.I am sure she is a good mum and you must trust that she is putting the money to good use.Forget the money and just concentrate on building a relationship with your son because believe me kids will remember the quality of time a parent spends with them;the playing football,watching tv together etc...materialism does not build either relationships or memories.

YABU, the money you give your EXW is to look after him, she doesnt necessarily have to spend it on things you can see. What about the food your DS eats, electricity he consumes, that game he wants bought etc. I get £200 from my EXH which rounds up to 50 quid a week.... I spend more than that on my son just merely transporting him to school, after school clubs and also his various extra curriculars. In essence I fund the rest myself from my own pocket including uniforms (his Y7 uniform cost £200) that was the child support gone in one sitting. He also subscribes to various magazines; reads a lot so buy him a lot of books etc.

If you are having such a problem with paying more then pay what the CSA suggest but dont act as if your EXW is priviledged to be receiving that amount from you. The reason why I referred my EXH to the CSA was exactly because of him feeling he was doing me a favour by giving me £100 a month. Well the CSA though otherwise and doubled it. That money is for your son and if you insist on receipts then you might actually end up paying for more.

I read this as you want to pay for your son, but do not want to pay a penny toward your exs life in anyway shape or form. Im assuming you have been badly hurt in the split... However it is <span class="italic">not</span> in your sons best intrests to harbour such contempt towards his mother regardless of reason why. It will be obvious to your son , and it will <span class="italic">hurt</span> him and have a negative effect on him. Be the good parent you claim to be. Have your sons happiness as the overiding constant in your mind .
The money is just a vent for your resentment...

mumofthree - but in this instance, its rather different. The OP seems like he's giving a couple of grand a month, and is paying for things like school uniform, clothes and activities as well. A completely different position to yours.

And I strongly suspect that if the OP had more access to his son (26 visits a year is bugger all), he wouldn't even be thinking about the money he pays. Shame on any woman who denies her child access to his father with no reason.

"Tweaking my accounts and going to the CSA to pay next to nothing remains an option but after reading this thread one that I'm unlikely to look at for the simple reason it could hurt my son. However, its a possible "nuclear weapon" of last resort should things ever deteriorate and I need a bargaining tool to keep access to my son."

Nice, OP.

Why not run along and buy yourself a Spiderman costume so you can REALLY display your love for your son. They do them in cock size very very very small indeed.

YANBU.
You openly said in your first post that you accepted and understood that a large portion of maintenence would be for rent/mortgage, food, bills etc.

I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to want to have some idea/reassurance that the money you give for your son is spent on your son.

We pay a large sum of maintenence to dp's ex each month, like the op it is way more than CSA figures but we don't have an issue with that because our dsd's needs are paramount.

However, we have weekly requests for clothing,uniform, shoes, toys,treat money, etc etc.
The sum we pay is hundreds of pounds, there is enough there to provide for needs on top of a portion of living expenses etc.
Add to that the fact that we have dsd every weekend and all school holidays,we too need to have an extra room to house our dsd, we too have to feed and clothe her when she is here, petrol costs for activities, etc etc.

I don't understand why so many of you are flaming the op, his choice of words (receipts) was inflammatory I think but on the whole I get what he is talking about.

We pick dsd up from school every friday, she arrives in her school unifom, we wouldn't send her home on a Sunday night in her uniform so every week we send her home in an outfit of clothing, we never get clothing coming back this way and for many non-resident parents this is a common occurrence.

Saying that the op should have a set of everything at his house only works if there is a two way movement for toys/clothes etc.

Non-resident parents have maintenence costs on top of housing,bills,clothing, activities etc.

Those non-resident parents that don't pay are of course arseholes, but why shouldn't a decent non-resident parent be able to ask for details on what is being spent on his child and why without being flamed.

I don't see it as controlling, I see it as a natural question if everything is only one way.

The only thing I do see as controlling is to use money as a weapon, that on either side is wrong in my opinion.

Sorry, rambling but hope you get the gist.

Sweedes, I would imagine he's really desparate to see more of his son. I think this is what this aggro is really about, rather than money.

Given that the OP has happily admitted that he won't press his DS for information about his XW and that he and XW do not talk, how on earth can he know what her expenses are and whether or not she's buying new handbags to the detriment of their son's needs?

My advice would be to forget about maintenance and residency for now and to put all your resources into trying to achieve a properly amicable relationship with your XW, spending money on mediation if necessary. It has been two years and if your son is to grow up without lasting scars from your divorce, he needs to see the two of you communicating well in his best interests regardless of whatever you feel about each other. My XP beat me up, threatened to kill me and pays no maintenance. I pressed charges and made it clear that I will not tolerate any crap from him now or in the future. Despite this, if you saw us in the room together now, you would think we were halfway decent friends. We got there because we drew a line under the past and started again with new standards of behaviour for the benefit of our children.

2. I absolutely do not accept that I'm supposed to hand over my cash every month for my ex to spend as she wishes with no accountability or visibility. The money is not for her, it's for my son. I have the right to at least see how that money is spent. This wouldn't be acceptable in any other walk of life, I don't see why this is any different.

It doesn't work like that. You do have to hand over the money every month and the resident parent does have a right to spend the money how they wish without having to explain how it is spent ...

the only time this would be unacceptable would be if the child were clearly being neglected even though maintenance was being paid. Then it would be a case of reporting to SS, Police and the NSPCC.

This is why it would be understandable (in mine, and other's opinions) for you to pay the amount you are expected to by the CSA to your ex and then decide yourself how the remainder is spent on your child. You would then have some control over how your money is spent on your child.

I have to disagree with some of the posters who said 'you won't get support here'. It's not about men and women, it's about a really tricky separation case. This man wants the best for his son - very difficult when you don't get on with your ex-partner.
I think you might have to renegotiate your child care and ask for dual custody - therefore, you are far more in the driving seat when it comes to your son's welfare, you are paying directly for things, such as lunch money, school trips, his dinner. And you get to see him 50% of the time. Better for your son, I think, and hopefully better for you.
Good luck.

Boss , its his choice to pay that much .He can afford it.He just wants praised for being a "good dad" .
Man pays =good dad.
Ex-w , has custody ,if op really wants more access why hasnt he applied to court for it?
they were married , he would get more access unless there is a very good reason for him not too .
I think op would only be happy if the ex was in rags and starving ... then he would know shes not spending "his" money on herself .
Really .
She works part time - has a smaller ncome now, whos not to say she uses some of that for her handbags ect ,whilst the maintenence and the majority or her earnings go to run the home.
Why shouldnt the op buy stuff for his child over and above the payments?.

I'd go CSA and if that means reduced payments you should set aside the difference and spend it on your child yourself in a way which you deem to be acceptable.