Payments to ex wife. Opinions sought.

[TheWaspFactory]

I'm told this is a good place to get opinions. Don't hold back please ladies...

I have a six year old son to my ex wife. We have been separated for about 2 years now and are on cordial, if not friendly terms.

He lives with her and I see him every other weekend.

I currently pay a considerable sum every month to my ex by way of child support. This amount is much more than I would pay through a CSA enforced agreement. I actually suggested this amount as I want the best for my son.

Living and financial arrangements have been agreed between myself and my ex wife informally.

I should point out that I'm by and large happy (well, satisfied maybe) with the concept if not the execution of this plan. Ideally I'd like to have full time residency of my son but my ex wife has made clear she doesn't want this to happen so for the moment, this situation is probably the best for all concerned.

However, I've an issue with the amount I pay and how it is used. I pay this cash for the benefit of my son - not my ex wife. I neither care nor know how she supports herself. The thing is I'm not convinced she is actually spending this cash on my son.

Would I be unreasonable to ask for receipts or some kind of evidence of where my money is going? I appreciate that a significant amount of this is rolled up in to my ex wife's living costs (housing, etc) which can't be separated from supporting my son and to be fair he's not exactly going hungry but I end up buying him most of the stuff I expect my monthly payment to pay for. For example, I end up buying the vast majority of his clothes when he's with me, most of his schooling expenses (trips, uniform, etc) are paid by me, toys - again by me. All the material things end up at my ex's home.

As far as I'm concerned I'm supporting my son - not my ex wife. This money is meant to pay for him, not her handbags and holidays.

I'm tempted to tear up our agreement and go down the official route. As I'm self employed the amount the CSA would specify would be a fraction of what I'm paying now. The balance I could put in to a trust or similar for my son when he's older.

However, before I do this, I thought the receipt idea might be a fair push to actually get wife to spend my money on my son.

Opinions please? I appreciate that this may not be a "popular" post but thought a view from the "other side" might be enlightening...

Missed that Stewie - sorry

I think some people are being very hard on the OP. I'm with Munchinkinland. I think it's quite reasonable to wonder if the money is being spent on his son. We had a problem with my DH's ex and their kids (she had a generous allowance and didn't work, and an apparently rather fancy lifestyle, whereas the kids weren't even given pocket money and were running around in clothes and shoes that were too small). However, DH never found a satisfactory way to resolve it. I wonder whether you could both sit down with a third party and go over the financial arrangements together, to see if they are reasonable?

You sound like you and your ExW have managed things well so far - amicable, shared custody etc. Do you really want to rock the boat over an arrangement that you say yourself has worked well so far? Would anyone really benefit?

When my parents divorced, for me, one of the worst aspects was dealing with the financial fall-out, with each parent claiming that they had been left poverty-stricken, (if fact, they are both quite comfortable relative to most people) and using us, the children, to score points as to who could afford the least to provide for us.

If the relationship with your ExW declines further, your son will be the one who bears the brunt. He will appreciate your generosity in later years.

And in all fairness , i dont think dh`s ex could manage without the maintenence she gets ..if it was reduced to the amount she would get recomended by the csa (if we stop paying for dd1) she would struggle . How would that be fair on the kids ?
Im not a nicer person , im just a realist who had been in a position of poor finances due to a marriage break up, who had a twat who didnt pay for his kids until csa took them direct from his wages.
I wouldnt want my step kids or their mum to suffer like i did.

Well I think the OP sounds caring and generous. I think you should use the money as a bargaining tool.. ask for more contact or tell your ex you will go down the CSA route. She sounds selfish and unreasonable. I don't think you can reasonably ask for reciepts.. way too complicated. Just be simple.. more contact or you get less money... non negotioable!

I sympathise with your frustration WaspFactory as my husband and I get very frustrated by the fact his son by his ex partner is always shabilly dressed when his ex is forever in new designer clothes etc. Especially as my stepson has learning difficulties and may need support throughout his adult life, and I can't help thinking the dosh we give her would be better invested for his future.

However, you can't ask for receipts I'm afraid. The system doesn't work like that, whether your arrangement is formal or informal -your ex is under no onus to justify where your money goes. I strongly suspect asking for receipts would lead to a deterioration of your relationship, which is not ideal from your son's perspective.

Besides, even if she did provide you with a record aportioning money from her housing and utility costs, and receipting her other expenditure on him (clothes, food, outing, toys, books etc), how would you really know how much of 'your' money and how much of 'her money' goes on these things? At the end of the day you are subsidising her income, and if she doesn't spend the full amount of your maintenance on stuff specifically for your son, she could just aportion more of her other household expenditure to make her total spend on him up to what your give her if pushed.

I think suggesting you give her slightly less and put the difference in a bank account for him (preferably one she can also check the balance on etc) is actually less offensive than the receipting suggestion, though I imagine either would leave you in an aggrevated situation to be honest.

Sympathis with the clothes and toys etc all migrating to her house though, I know how that feels, and how sad grandparents on our side etc get when gifts they give him are never seen by them again... one of the sad realities of kids living in two homes I'm afraid!

Four - not being able to go on holiday is hardly struggeling imo ... so we have a small budget for "fun stuff" , but i can pay my bills and feed and cloth the kids .
When i was just divorced , i was struggeling..i pawned jewllery and borrowed money to feed the children.
There is a vast difference.

OMG You cannot POLICE her like this.
Leave her alone fgs and suck it up.
You agreed the terms now stick to them and enjoy the time you have with your son and in no way make derogatory comments about his mother in his hearing.

Sounds like she escaped from you with good reason.

You did ask.

OP You sound like a kind and generous dad to me. It is perfectly possible that you are in the right here. If you don't trust your wife to use your maintenance the way you want it to be used then TBH I would go down the CSA route, and supplement as you see necessary to help out your son (but pay for thing directly rather than via your wife).

There are a lot of very ranty people on here having a go at you, but I know for a fact that if you were a woman whos DH was paying out maintenance then the response you would get would be very different...

I dont doubt the op is generous , but its the attitude thats off.
Bit controlling , dont like it.
What if the ex did provide reciepts ? would it stop there ? would the op only give her money for stuff that was bought for ds ?

Would he give her half the electricity bill, or half the food bill? .
Or would he only pay for the chicken nuggets and the squash the child consumes, but not the pasta that the child doesnt like ?

If she met a new partner or had another child to someone else , would it be reduced to a third of her expenses? .

Can anyone else see WHY its insulting an controling to want to know the details of the ex`s finances?

There are some (alas, predictably) vile posts on here, laced with spite and born out of some posters' inability (or unwillingness) to separate their own feelings relating to failed relationships from the question being discussed.

It is understandable to bring one's own experiences to bear when making judgements about a situation but to do so in such malevolent terms reduces such contributions to pointless negative rantings.

The OP does not deserve the abuse hurled at him by some of the sad (as in pitiable, but also, I suspect, depressed) contributors on here.

I don't think he is to be commended, as such, for providing for his son in the way that he does because it is a duty, albeit one that all too many 'fathers' neglect.

You are not allowed to be controlling - you hand the money to your ex wife for the upkeep of your dc - this may be sent on a pension for your wife - after all she is devoting a life time work to her dc and will need a pension for the old age - but she could spend it on gym membership to keep herself fit and lower the risk of her getting sick it doesn't matter what you see fit or how much money you hand over ofr ht up kleep of your dc

If you were my ex and asked me for receits of what I was buying I would explain to you that you are a control freak and ask you to fuck off.

i hope this is clear as to what I would think of you

suck it up

now jog on

Well look at it this way he is paying an amount he does not have too, the amount can be reduced by a half at least as the CSA told him he is paying double then he needs to.

He want receipts because he wants to make sure the money he is paying is going to his son, his wife works and he also pays things separately on top of the money he pays e.g. school bills.

I think it would be in his ex wifes interest to at least discuss with him because he can go the CSA route and she won't be getting the same amount any longer i think the OP said he would then put the rest in a trust fund for his son.

As i said before looking for receipts is impractical because money is not so easily tracked especially since some of the money is going to the bills/expenses so it would be mixed up with her own money.

So telling him to 'fuck off' would not help the situation.

I am ashamed at how many posters are using the term 'suck it up' on here.

It says far more about you than you think you're saying about the OP.

Please grow up. You are embarrassing.

In a nutshell , it is good that you pay maintenence for your ds , its is good that you want to spend more time with him..
Its is wrong that you want the ex to account for every penny she spends.
You want her to "proove" she is putting all the money on ds ,?,
If my DH (never mind my ex -dh) did that , id tell him to f off too.

What ampere said.

Csa amounts are the minimum required by law , it shouldnt be seen as the amount a child needs ...imo .
Some people only pay £5 , how is that going to help anyone?

And what you said, too, barmy

It is fascinating, but rather sad IMO, how many posters on here think it is OK to try to control another adult that they are no longer married to through maintenance

Hmm! Trouble is OP that children don't have bills that total up into neat little piles. My DS has £36 per month school dinners, £30 breakfast club on the days I work, £10 per month on school swimming - so a definite £76 per month. Beyond that I would be hard pressed to give receipts for anything apart from clothes if bought and haircuts or shoes. However, I pay rent, council tax, electricity, phone bills, food shopping and I invest a good amount of time in our DS who is autistic. I drive our son to his special needs group (more petrol) and need access to a car for this.

Do you see what I mean? It's difficult and I think treating your DS to toys and clothes is great but you shouldn't be doing that in place of your ex. Does she buy any clothes or toys? If not - why not? My ex buys our DS clothes and toys at times but I don't expect him to do so - he does it because he loves our son and I appreciate him for being caring enough to do so. And of course most toys he buys for our DS come back here because that's where DS spends the bulk of his time.

I think it would be worth thinking about going down the CSA route with the understanding that you will continue to treat your DS and contribute to any bigger bills for him as and when they come up. However, how difficult will that make things? Is your ex the type to use your son as a weapon to hold you to ransom?

Sorry you dont like it but I thought 'suck it up' summed up perfectly what I think he should do - more heartfelt than childish

If my ex treated me this way I would be considerably less polite and you know what - I'd rather have noting at all from him that be subjected to that kind of intrusion into my personal life

Has no-one else picked up on the fact that OP's ex is controlling him through access to their child? Every other weekend is sod all tbh.

OP, I would recommend that you go back to the drawing board and try mediation. Seems to me that you should carry on paying the same amount but try for more access. Sounds to me that that's the thing that would bring you (and your son) more happiness than anything else and I suspect you wondering about your ex's expenditure and such like is just because it provides an outlet for your unhappiness at not seeing your son more frequently.

Good luck.

How is CSA calculated? Is it just based on the other party's (in this case dad's)income or do they take expenses and the resident carer's income into account too?