Payments to ex wife. Opinions sought.

[TheWaspFactory]

I'm told this is a good place to get opinions. Don't hold back please ladies...

I have a six year old son to my ex wife. We have been separated for about 2 years now and are on cordial, if not friendly terms.

He lives with her and I see him every other weekend.

I currently pay a considerable sum every month to my ex by way of child support. This amount is much more than I would pay through a CSA enforced agreement. I actually suggested this amount as I want the best for my son.

Living and financial arrangements have been agreed between myself and my ex wife informally.

I should point out that I'm by and large happy (well, satisfied maybe) with the concept if not the execution of this plan. Ideally I'd like to have full time residency of my son but my ex wife has made clear she doesn't want this to happen so for the moment, this situation is probably the best for all concerned.

However, I've an issue with the amount I pay and how it is used. I pay this cash for the benefit of my son - not my ex wife. I neither care nor know how she supports herself. The thing is I'm not convinced she is actually spending this cash on my son.

Would I be unreasonable to ask for receipts or some kind of evidence of where my money is going? I appreciate that a significant amount of this is rolled up in to my ex wife's living costs (housing, etc) which can't be separated from supporting my son and to be fair he's not exactly going hungry but I end up buying him most of the stuff I expect my monthly payment to pay for. For example, I end up buying the vast majority of his clothes when he's with me, most of his schooling expenses (trips, uniform, etc) are paid by me, toys - again by me. All the material things end up at my ex's home.

As far as I'm concerned I'm supporting my son - not my ex wife. This money is meant to pay for him, not her handbags and holidays.

I'm tempted to tear up our agreement and go down the official route. As I'm self employed the amount the CSA would specify would be a fraction of what I'm paying now. The balance I could put in to a trust or similar for my son when he's older.

However, before I do this, I thought the receipt idea might be a fair push to actually get wife to spend my money on my son.

Opinions please? I appreciate that this may not be a "popular" post but thought a view from the "other side" might be enlightening...

crikey, ivy don't battle me with Maths LOL

I meant 'baffle' not 'battle' LOL

duplotogo, but then where would the girlfriend sleep if DD was in the bed?

Foureleven, OP has not yet told anyone how it is that he 'ends up' paying the extra money that he pays (and then whines about).

Again, support is calculated based on income. If he can afford it, he should pay it. If he couldn't afford what he has been paying he shouldn't have agreed to it. He could have gone the CSA route from the start. And he should stop whining about it, stop resenting his ex-wife and disparaging her new handbags (calculated remark there), stop implying that he is forced to fork over all the extra money, stop hinting at what he would like wrt custody (but not apparently doing anything about it) and stop resenting the current arrangements at the same time. Sore loser is what he sounds like.

The bottom line is that apparently nobody forced this dad to do anything wrt either the financial arrangements or the custody, everything was arranged informally right from the start, and now he is angry and resentful about it. OP, take your chances with the courts if you feel you're being so badly treated and if you think you can get a better deal. But support is calculated based on income and the child's standard of living will be taken in to account.

"Sore loser"?

Yes, whining about financial arrangements he entered into voluntarily, speaking of the ex-wife as if she is living the high life while he is left holding the can (cf snide reference to handbags).

The OP is happy enough with the custody arrangements (for now apparently) but wants to reduce the payments, throws in the "I end up paying for extras all of which ends up at home and not at my house" without any explanation of how this happens or at whose behest. It's very whiny and snide, and apparently not really written with any thought as to the real cost of the care and keeping of a child.

And the hint that CSA intervention might result in far less going to the child is not nice. It is the hint of a person who is engaged in some kind of vendetta against an ex-spouse, not the hint of someone who wants his child's standard of living to be maintained.

I dint believe contact should ever be conditional on payment

Its interesting the wide range of responses to this thread. By the nature of the medium its difficult to convey context or the minutiae of a situation in a few hundred words - though I do think the view some posters have taken say more about them than it does about me.

I always considered myself to be a responsible and caring husband and father. I do my best to ensure that my son is provided for. I made sure my ex wife was fairly (if not generously) compensated at the end of our relationship and did my best to behave in an amicable and reasonable way to ensure my son didn't suffer. I certainly never indulged in some of the things that some posters here complain about in other threads. It seems that by virtue of having that Y chromosome I am automatically in the wrong for some posters...

But I digress. I have a faintly ridiculous notion that I need to defend my self against some of the frankly bizarre interpretations of my posts...

I'm "whining" about the financial arrangements because I don't believe (or I have came to believe recently) that my ex wife is not upholding her "end" of the agreement. I don't believe that I should (for example) have to pay for my son's haircuts or Scout Beavers uniform or footwear or his clothes when the agreement was that day to day this would be provided from the maintenance payment. I'd much rather spend what little time I have with my son at safari parks or museums than shopping for clothes because he's arrived in the same shabby stuff for the third visit in a row.

And these end up at my ex's because I believe as he spends most of his time there then he can make best use of them there. That's fine but that wasn't the agreement.

I wish to provide for my son which I why the agreement was made in the first place. I'm coming to believe that I can better provide for my son by spending the maintenance directly rather than /hoping/ my ex wife is using the payment for the purpose for which it was intended. However, I'm reluctant to do this as I don't want to risk annoying my ex and potentially have her reduce my already limited access or expose my son to a potential conflict between his parents which won't do him any good at all. Thus I live in an unsatisfactory status quo where anywhere up to 50% of my monthly income disappears in to a non accountable black hole and I'm still having to pay for and arrange his day to day expenses.

It's probably worth pointing out (again) that I have no resentment or other malice to my ex wife. That relationship ended long ago and while I wish my ex wife happiness and success I have no wish to return to it and remind myself of unhappy times. This is why I keep communication to a bare minimum and only directly relevant to my son and his wellbeing.

Thanks to the advice on this thread I'm beginning to realise that the only way forward for me is (as it is for many things) to communicate more with my ex wife. As I've already said I'm going to speak to my solicitor next week but I'm also going to have a think about the best way of opening a line of communication with my ex.

Above all though, I just want what is best for my son. I also desperately want to stay involved in his life as his father and not some nice Uncle he sees once a month. I happen to believe the first is intrinsically linked to the second.

So ladies thank you for the replies and the advice. It has been hugely helpful.

I think you've explained a lot there wasp. Fwiw, you always sounded reasonable to me, but hopefully you might have quietened some of your critics with that last post. Good luck talking to ex.

Stewiegriffithsmom you have absolutely no idea whether I am or have been in that position so I don't get your point .

whilst not a mum as in biological (which you could gather from previous posgts), I am a step-mum, now separated from step-child's dad.

It sounds like a lot of money every month, to me anyway. I could live very happily on that alone with dd. (I'm married, we are a 'normal' family.) Actually, it's more than the 3 of us have to live on.

I think that if your wife is a fundamentally reasonable person, then you could ask her for a discussion about money, in a neutral place.

I don't think you sound controlling, btw, but we are only reading your posts, not your ex's as well. From what you've said though, you sound pretty reasonable. And I do think 2500 is a hell of a lot of money.

Have I missed something?

The OP seems to be saying that he is considering going to the CSA and he is going to lie to them and presumably on his tax return as well re. the true level of his income (self employed) in order to pay his ex wife less as he doesn't think she deserves it?

And people are saying what a straight-up guy he is?

Blimey.

Christ almighty have just seen that OP is going to use the threat of going to CSA with falsified income so as to reduce ex's payments, in order to keep her in line.

What a charming chap

He is going to put the extra amount in an account for his son. He is responsible for his son's upkeep not his ex wife's.

So you condone people comitting illegal acts wholly in order to wriggle out of meeting their legal obligations?

What an absolutely charming attitude.

You think that it is perfectly acceptable for a man to use the fact he is prepared to act ilegally in order to evade his legal obligations, to force someone to behave in a way that he deems appropriate? Even though these threats will almost certianly negatively impact on his child who he is oh so keen to look after?

Crikey.

I am so glad that I don't know many people like some of those on here in RL.

And you want to rewrite the divorce laws? So that people are never under any circumstances entitled to any support from their ex-spouse?

It's an interesting approach, maybe you could post it on the coalition "tell us what laws you want changed" website.

I do not condone any illegal activity nor do I think a child is a meal ticket for the rest of your life.

I too am glad I don't know many people like some of those on here in RL.

Oh sorry I thought you were posting in support of the OP.

You know, the OP who wants to lie to the authorities (illegal) in order to wriggle out of his financial obligation. Or possibly just threaten her with that course of action.

What a super-top fabbo man he is.

I am interested Minng in what proposals you have for the divorce laws in this country. Is itno-one entitled to any money from a ex ever under any circs?

Go via CSA and put the rest to the trust fund for your son. As you said, you're buying all the clothes, toys, uniforms etc, your son will have no lack of material things. Your ex should be able to support herself and her child as far as living expenses are concerned, if she can't, perhaps you could sit down with her and discuss how you could help her in that regard, if you so wish, of course.

Actually that was mean and what I really wanted to say was that child maintenance should be used for the upkeep of the child nothing else. If the ex-wife or husband cannot look after her/himself then they should go to court and see if maintenance is granted to them.

Sorry mingg I seem to have gone a bit arsey.

Was just total at so many people saying "yea go for it" to a man who was saying these things.

Good grief, this site is full of utterly bitter ex wives/girlfriends/etc.... So much venom, mostly unrelated to the OP, shocking.
(pulls out chair to read the whole thread. Is sorely tempted by a large glass of wino)