Payments to ex wife. Opinions sought.

[TheWaspFactory]

I'm told this is a good place to get opinions. Don't hold back please ladies...

I have a six year old son to my ex wife. We have been separated for about 2 years now and are on cordial, if not friendly terms.

He lives with her and I see him every other weekend.

I currently pay a considerable sum every month to my ex by way of child support. This amount is much more than I would pay through a CSA enforced agreement. I actually suggested this amount as I want the best for my son.

Living and financial arrangements have been agreed between myself and my ex wife informally.

I should point out that I'm by and large happy (well, satisfied maybe) with the concept if not the execution of this plan. Ideally I'd like to have full time residency of my son but my ex wife has made clear she doesn't want this to happen so for the moment, this situation is probably the best for all concerned.

However, I've an issue with the amount I pay and how it is used. I pay this cash for the benefit of my son - not my ex wife. I neither care nor know how she supports herself. The thing is I'm not convinced she is actually spending this cash on my son.

Would I be unreasonable to ask for receipts or some kind of evidence of where my money is going? I appreciate that a significant amount of this is rolled up in to my ex wife's living costs (housing, etc) which can't be separated from supporting my son and to be fair he's not exactly going hungry but I end up buying him most of the stuff I expect my monthly payment to pay for. For example, I end up buying the vast majority of his clothes when he's with me, most of his schooling expenses (trips, uniform, etc) are paid by me, toys - again by me. All the material things end up at my ex's home.

As far as I'm concerned I'm supporting my son - not my ex wife. This money is meant to pay for him, not her handbags and holidays.

I'm tempted to tear up our agreement and go down the official route. As I'm self employed the amount the CSA would specify would be a fraction of what I'm paying now. The balance I could put in to a trust or similar for my son when he's older.

However, before I do this, I thought the receipt idea might be a fair push to actually get wife to spend my money on my son.

Opinions please? I appreciate that this may not be a "popular" post but thought a view from the "other side" might be enlightening...

Children under 16 get free dental treatment on the Nsh

Yes, you are all very lucky in the UK in that respect.

I don't see how it's relevant but people seem to be clamoring to know.

I pay £2500 a month. I agreed this because I want my son to want for nothing. I want him to grow up with every opportunity available and not be denied anything because of money. That's fine - that's what I agreed to and have no problem with.

My ex and I are divorced. Apologies for not making this clear. She left me for a work colleague. The settlement we agreed included her staying in the family home with a sizable settlement. I could have argued for a better deal from my pov but I thought it worth while to avoid causing my boy any upset. Again this is fine, I agreed to this and feel no resentment or bitterness.

Over the last six months or so I've found things that I thought my monthly maintenance would be paying for haven't been done or sorted so I've had to do them - nothing major but enough so they have me asking questions. It varies but I find myself paying around £200 a month extra for things. Again, not a problem but this wasn't the arrangement.

What now? I have considered dropping the amount and saving the rest for him but I only see him a tiny amount as it is and I don't want to risk my ex trying to reduce that even more if I piss her off. I have no idea if she would act this way but its not a chance I'm willing to take. I could push for more access but she's made it clear in the past that she thinks I see too much of him as it is. I don't want to upset ny son by starting an ugly fight with my ex.

And for what its worth I live a simple life. Big houses, flash cars, extravagant holidays etc don't interest me. Aside from a passion for photography I spend little on my self. Everything I do is for my boy.

So what do I do? The opinion here seems to be I should just hand over the cash and live with it - not something I'm keen to do I'm sure you understand. I'm going to have a chat with my solicitor next week but I have to say if the mentality displayed here is typical of what I'm likely to face I don't hold out much hope....

And as an aside do people actually read my posts before replying? by all means disagree with me but at least get it right before you begin the abuse...

The point that bothers me is not about the money OP, its about the other persons right to privacy. If you dont like what you are paying by all means re negotiate, but dont try to control what your ex does with what you give her. As long as your son is well cared for and you have access its really not your call anymore as to how she chooses to live - sorry but thats the way it is once you are divorced.

Wow, well that is a generous sum, but I guess try to look at it this way, your son is having the same lifestyle he would have had if you and his mum had stayed together.

If I hadn't left my x, the children would have been much better off financially. Things are very hard sometimes, and I sometimes worry that we are regarded as that poor family! Although they are confident and happy. Their Dad comes to see them whenever it suits them, and pays nothing. That's the way he wants things. He'll have to answer to them when they're older though.

I do agree with elastamum about privacy though. You can't pore over somebody else's household expenses and seek to have an opinion on any purchase which wasn't for your son. I'm sure the 2,500 definitely is making sure that your son never goes without. She loves him too.

i am going to be really honest here and say that the OP does not strike me as being concerened for his son's best interest in this matter.that isn't to say he doesn't look after his son's best interests in general, just that i dont think this issue has arisen out of concern for his son. he has not stated anywhere that he is worried that his son is being neglected or not having all his needs met by his mother. tbveryh i think it is a case of OP noticing that his ex has new things or nicer clothes and has had a sudden pang of jealousy/envy. in his own mind he has equated this to be as a result of the money he pays her for maintenance of their son because the money is the only relationship he has with her (he said himself he only talks to her when necessary). that is my truly honest opinion on this. i am not saying OP doesn't care for his son but i do not believe that this particular issue was born out of concern for his son.

So, you're going to see a solicitor about reducing money but not inclined to request the additional contact that you say you would like?

WF, I am divorced but as I earn 10X what my ex does I paid out to him rather than vice versa so I'm kind of in a neutral posituin here and the five children choose to live with me (although one has now finished her studies and lives elsewhere). Children are very expensive. Our court order says I pay the school and university fees x 5 whoever the children live with (as I earn more) which is not unusual. That sum alone puts £2500 into the shade as it were so amounts are all just relative.

As I am sure others ahve said on the thread the sum paid is to keep the child. One of the biggest costs for most of us is housing. If I were housing myself a one bed flat would do. I house 5 children or did (now it's 4) and I had to borrow over £1m to fund my divorce settlement and keep the children in their home. I'm happy to do that as a responsible parent but it certainly mean I have to work very hard to keep his children.

What is the answer to your question? If you are feeling the pinch then tell her you will go down to CSA levels and any extra you will pay the bill direct - plenty of fathers (and a few mothers like me) pay school fees direct to the school etc or pay the nanny cost so the other parent can work full time or half of it etc. it's very common at higher income levels to pay some things direct so you know where the money is going.

But the law as we all knwo it is she can keep the child on bread and water with one set of clothes and blow all the money on herself and the rality is if you cause difficulties mothers can avoid any contact between father and child if they choose to be difficult. In my view the law shuld be changed to force parents to ensure children live half the time with both parents so neither has to pay any money to the other with any change from 50/50 needing court approval. A 50/50 default works very well in other countries and most adults don't like to be supported by another adult (except the stepford housewives of mumsnet who seem happy to accept that status).

Yes booyhoo, and also, it is unrealistic to think of a family unit where one member has everything they need and another member goes without any small luxury or treat. A family unit has the same standard of living surely? There would be an odd dynamic going on if there was a pampered privileged little lord fauntleroy in the centre and then two adults skrimping and saving. That just wouldn't work. The child would notice it eventually. It wouldn't be in a child's best interest to be in that situation.

nothing major..but £200 a month for those nothing major things.

£200 is major in some households- that would pay for the roof to be fixed.

I could pay for all my dd2's activities with £200, swimming, drama, school meals and afterschool club

I can't imagine what major things cost £200 for each month...

absolutely VS. a division like that would most definitely cause resentment and stress.

OP you need to talk to your ex wife.

you can let this carry on and become resentful or you can talk to her. tell her you would like to increase contact (your son has a right to this and unless there is a threat of violence then the courts will agree) and also tell her that you would like to reduce the maintenance by X amount each month so that you may save for his education/future etc. if she goes of the wall, dont enter into any further discussion. see a solicitor and ask them to put forward your proposals (they are not unreasonable as long as you dont demand to know what the maintenance is spent on-they would laugh you out of court with that one). the courts want children to have contact with NRPs. once a fortnight is really not alot, especially if you are expecting to eventually have residency (not that i think you should unless your son would be better off all round not jsut financially). but really you need to talk to her first. it may make things difficult for a while but your son only has one dad and in years to come may be grateful that you fought this battle for him.

when i say i dont think you should have residency i mean full residency. i dont see why you shouldn't have shared residency.

WaspFactory, just refuse to pay the £200 for "extras". Just don't do it. There is something seriously wrong if your ex can't manage to pay for his uniforms and school trips out of £2500- unless he's at Eton perhaps.

My ex used to pay me the amount set by the CSA and not a penny more, but I NEVER asked him for further contributions towards clothes or holidays. DS stayed with him every alternate weekend plus one night mid-week, and he took him on holiday at least twice a year.

The maintenance money went into the household pot, with a small amount going into a savings account for DS.

'So, you're going to see a solicitor about reducing money but not inclined to request the additional contact that you say you would like?'

No I'm hoping to have a chat about options for contact and support arrangements.

And £200 isn't much over a month, a school trip here a haircut there. A few pairs of shoes. A nintendo game. Soon adds up.

Some people will increase contact if told they might otherwise be taken to court. Others react by allowing no contact whatsoever and as courts rarely jail mothers you can find you end up with no contact at all. So just be careful. Though once children are big enough to choose they can take their own decisions so play a long game as most of yuour time with them will be when they're over 13 or 14 anyway, rest of their lives.

£200 doesn't go far at all.

Lots of men say they want 100% contact/residence or nothing. It's a kind of male thing, all or nothing, no compromise, on my terms or nothing at all.

It's good to take legal advice but then try to effect the change you want other than through the courts.

Once a fortnight is pathetic. Plenty of fathers have have children mid week and get to do real parent things like making them do homework, cleaning school uniform, clearing up sick, finding child care for 5am to 8am because you're away on a business trip (as those of us with our chidlren 365 days a year when we don't want that haev to do) rather than just playing at it all on an occasional basis.

Can you be a stepford housewife and shit at housework?

(pp, yes; that's the worst deal for the working man - housewife who doesn't keep the house although I suppose if she devotes 5 hours a day to working out and looking good and is good in bed then that might make up for it and some will manage the staff so that might be sufficient).

Xenia do you have your own business and could you direct me to a good business plan?

Sorry for hijack.

OP, seriously you need to sit with a mediator and explain what you expect, explain to your ex you're frightened that she'll cut access if you come to a new arrangement and this would be terrible for your boy.

OP £200 a month for extras is loads - its more than my sons dad gives me and I wouldn't be able to pay my mortgage without it.

Does yout son really need all those extras though?

The best thing you can give a kid is time.

So OP, are you the jealous type? Do you suspect your ex may have picked up her life after her relationship with you ended, and may have another man supporting her?

Is this why you want your son living with you, and why you are no longer happy to be spending money on support, and why you seem to think a request for an accounting of 'your' money may be necessary?

You come across as very controlling, very resentful and angry, and passive aggressive to boot you 'end up' paying for clothes and toys and school uniforms, etc. How does one 'end up' spending money for clothes and toys? And it all 'ends up' at home with your son how? How about keeping your wallet in your pocket on weekends, and stopping the spend/ whine cycle? Are you being forced to spend one extra penny beyond what you give every month? Do you have no control whatsoever over how often you reach for the wallet? You are playing the martyr, and it's not pretty.

I also gather that you think you could pull the wool over CSA's eyes wrt your income as you're self employed, and somehow get away with contributing far less than you can obviously afford. Are you contemplating hiding your real income in order to pay less?

Mathanxiety

Did you read the OPs last post???

His wife left him for a work colleague 2 years ago. Suddenly he is jealous?? lol

Sammyuni, 2 years is nothing to a bruised ego! I left my x 3 years ago. He's not over it yet. And it's control issues that let me know he's not over 'it' rather than 'me'.

When the desire to control her is still there, I think it's a fair assumption!