Payments to ex wife. Opinions sought.

[TheWaspFactory]

I'm told this is a good place to get opinions. Don't hold back please ladies...

I have a six year old son to my ex wife. We have been separated for about 2 years now and are on cordial, if not friendly terms.

He lives with her and I see him every other weekend.

I currently pay a considerable sum every month to my ex by way of child support. This amount is much more than I would pay through a CSA enforced agreement. I actually suggested this amount as I want the best for my son.

Living and financial arrangements have been agreed between myself and my ex wife informally.

I should point out that I'm by and large happy (well, satisfied maybe) with the concept if not the execution of this plan. Ideally I'd like to have full time residency of my son but my ex wife has made clear she doesn't want this to happen so for the moment, this situation is probably the best for all concerned.

However, I've an issue with the amount I pay and how it is used. I pay this cash for the benefit of my son - not my ex wife. I neither care nor know how she supports herself. The thing is I'm not convinced she is actually spending this cash on my son.

Would I be unreasonable to ask for receipts or some kind of evidence of where my money is going? I appreciate that a significant amount of this is rolled up in to my ex wife's living costs (housing, etc) which can't be separated from supporting my son and to be fair he's not exactly going hungry but I end up buying him most of the stuff I expect my monthly payment to pay for. For example, I end up buying the vast majority of his clothes when he's with me, most of his schooling expenses (trips, uniform, etc) are paid by me, toys - again by me. All the material things end up at my ex's home.

As far as I'm concerned I'm supporting my son - not my ex wife. This money is meant to pay for him, not her handbags and holidays.

I'm tempted to tear up our agreement and go down the official route. As I'm self employed the amount the CSA would specify would be a fraction of what I'm paying now. The balance I could put in to a trust or similar for my son when he's older.

However, before I do this, I thought the receipt idea might be a fair push to actually get wife to spend my money on my son.

Opinions please? I appreciate that this may not be a "popular" post but thought a view from the "other side" might be enlightening...

But Morris, perhaps they can't wait for money that they've already spent raising the child.

most are more like "thank fuck im getting maintenance today i need to buy food , pay the leccy , repair the boiler ", morriszap.

For those who think it's none of his business what his ex does with the money could they please answer this for me. If for example the OP was giving 500 a month for his son. And say that was a large part of his income. And he was concerned that his ex wife wasn't putting any away for his son's future, which to him was an important issue. But to put away more himself would lead to financial difficulties for him, would he be unreasonable in reducing the amount he paid and putting some into a trust for the boy?

@TheWaspFactory
Hello,
You do know where your money is going, you spend it on mainetenance. If you want to renegotiate this then you should. If you want to be more specific about your donations then do.
Third parties can be nasty for all involved and family courts, especially, like to know that you've made real efforts to sort out your own problems when children are involved.

Best of luck sorting your probs

he would be unreasonable if it meant that teh child went without because of it orm.

OP is on a wind up, gone back to his dw and ds under the bridge

i dont think OP is a wind up, i think he is out of touch with what doing the best for his child actually means. money aint love.

I dont think the amount of money is that relevent.

If you had an income of 10k a year you would pay £125 a month which isnt really enough to raise a child but any more would cripple you.

The 15% must have been decided upon by the CSA because it is a sensible proportion of an annual salary but leaves enough for the non-resident parent to actually live as well.

I think it is vey unfair to have so much money taken so that she can care for their DS when he would do half the work by the sound of it if she'd let him.

yes i am also amazed at how many of these female exes are bitches and just after the money. it is exactly what OH said about me when i finally (after a year and a half of no help) went through CSA for maintenance. he was sooo totally wrong. the money was what my son is entitled to and it is still all in a savings account for him when he is older.

Firstly, I apologise for not reading this thread thoroughly first but it?s quite long and I?m only supposed to be taking a short tea break!

I am wondering if your ex wife perhaps sees some of your maintenance payment as a childcare ?wage? to her (as she presumably had to take a pay cut to move from FT to PT hours). I?m presuming (possibly incorrectly!) that you would have shared things like school runs, sick days, school holiday etc before the split and that now these are her responsibility she has had to reduce her hours to ensure he is looked after by a parent rather than after school/holiday club/other childcare. Paying to ensure that Mummy is waiting there at the school gates is probably of greater value to your son than lots of toys/new clothes/etc.

What I am trying to say in a very longwinded way is that your money is not just paying for overhead expenses and things for your son, but for her time to look after him.

This probably seems very unfair to you, as you sound as if you would happily compromise your own earnings potential and take on this responsibility yourself if you had greater access. I?m presuming you taking on more of the day to day childcare is not an option?

Other than potentially owning a few too many handbags, do you feel she is a good mother to your son? If the answer if yes then it?s probably in your son?s best interest that she can afford to continue working on a PT basis. If the answer is no then I think you need to seriously consider going to court for full residence.

It is irrelevant when it comes to child support as to who is at fault in a marrage breakdown, although not all of us LPs have the opportunity do do anything about it, as some partners simply go off and leave their families behind.

MZ I think you will find that all the reaserch says that the majority of resident parents - mostly women are significantly worse off in the yeaars after marriage breakdown and the majority of non resident parents mostly men are significantly better off.

So your example is a cultural stereotype that is very rare. On LP there is a thread entitled how much maintenance do you get. Why dont you all trot over there and read it. It is a real eye opener, and very sad

Swallowed, don't patronise me. I'm the hairiest feminist going and I don't believe any man over a woman just becuase I'm related to him. My brother is an almighty pain in the arse and I'd throw myself off a bridge befor I'd marry a man like him, but that doesn't make his ex magically in the right either.

I happen to know my ex sil very well, on a personal level. She is selfish and lazy - you know, like how some men are selfish and lazy?

It can happen you know. Being female and having kids doesn't give you a life pass to act how you like and be above any criticism.

I'm well aware that resident parents will spend on bills, food, other intangibles etc. But I've also seen RPs who leave the bills unpaid ('fat git can pay it' etc) so they can have money of their own to spend - and these are mothers whose kids are old enough to let then get out to work, but they choose not to.

swallowedafly - I think you misunderstood my intention in my post. I was trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt because there are indeed people out there who will see their children go without while they live it up (though I believe they are in a minority). However, what I was really trying to do was tell the OP to put his energies into communicating with his wife instead of second-guessing her spending habits.

I think most NRPs have no idea how much it costs (not just in terms of money) to raise a child on a day-to-day basis. I was pointing out that the OP has no basis whatsoever for supposing that the maintenance is not being spent on his son. HE admits the only knowledge he has is what his young son drops into the conversation. For all he knows, his XW could be buying a new handbag every week because she is able to do so out of her own earnings. The fact that she's bought one does not at all equate to abuse of money meant for a child's welfare. The only way he could suppose that is if his DS is constantly going on about his mum's new this, that and the other while himself being clothed and shod inappropriately and being undernourished. If the son is happy, well fed, appropriately clothed and generally doing well, then I totally agree that the OP has no business asking how the money is spent.

OP if you believe that your XW is doing well financially and doesn't need the level of maintenance you are paying for day-to-day bills, ask her. Say you would like to start providing for DS's future and how would she feel about you reducing payments and putting the shortfall into a savings account for your DS? This at least shows some consideration towards her, assumes that she, like you, has your DS's best interests at heart, and shows that you are willing in working together as co-parents rather than exes. It is a much more respectful way of approaching it than saying you want receipts, which basically states that you don't trust her, you think she's selfish and you think she needs to be treated like a naughty teenager.

IF you simply regret your earlier generosity and want to reduce payments, at least admit this rather than finding spurious excuses.

never, Your post is very sensible. Apart from the emotive 'ensure that mummy is waiting at the school gates'

Whether this is important or not is something that two parents need to agree on. If one doesnt think it is necessary than it is unfair for them to have to pay for the other one to do it.

If my ex told me I had to support him to go part-time because he wanted to make sure that 'daddy was at the school gates' every day id tell him to bugger off and get to work!

I get it!!

Most women are great mums, skint and honest. I don't need to read the research. My own mum brought us up as a single parent.

But why does that mean that in every single case, men must always pay up without complaint and women must always be totally unnacountable for what happens to the money?

And why does that mean that the OP (if he isn't a troll) is automatically in the wrong just for asking how the money is spent?

swallowedafly - fair enough, I won't use that term again.

But waspfactory should know that because he was married to the mother of his child he should expect maintenance to relate not only to his child but also to the fact that they were married. If he goes the CSA route I would expect his ex to look to the family courts for spousal maintenance to formalise both types of financial arrangement.

waspfactory, I don't think that anyone has a right to demand or even ask for receipts about the money being spent on the child except maybe the local authority would have that kind of power over foster parents perhaps? There would be a contractual relationship then.

I think the most simple question here is why the op and his ex are not on real grown up speaking terms. If they were this whole post would not exist.

He does not owe her spousal maintenance to be honest he stated that she was working full time and it is only recently she went part time also that he son is sometimes looked after family members.

i know Omar, why the hell doesn't he just speak to her and find out how much it actually costs to keep his son. he may come away with a very red face after finding out he is paying less than half of what it costs.

Really? You don't think there would be anything relating to her pension, time off work with small children, anything? I suspect there would be something on the spousal front.

I haven't read the whole thread, but if you're giving her enough money to house, feed, clothe, entertain and pay the school expenses of your son - then why are you spending lots more money on clothes and toys?

Surely your child isn't coming to you naked, and has plenty of toys and clothes in the 2 weeks he isn't with you.

Perhaps she won't talk to him...

Some fathers are fecklass, some mothers too. Some dads will do all they can to get out of paying a decent amount for their children, some mums will spend the money on shite.

If you have a good relationship with your son, and an ok one with your ex then you may well be doing better than most - DSDs mum won't say a word to me, despite all I do for her daughter and she and DH can't seem to have a phonecall without a row.

Don't jepordise a great relationship with your ds, just because you are suspicious of his mum. If you can afford it, then carry on for now. Is it really worth the hassle?

(but def get some stuff that stays at yours, you'll feel less aggreived if you do)